Michael Vick wants a dog...

 How about a Webkinz dog, or some sort of electronic dog. If I were his neighbor, or saw him around somewhere, I'd be frightened to let him pet my dog. If his kids want a dog, they should know full well it is his fault they can't have one, so that they can hate him for it.

JackieG

You think every person in history who has committed atrocities is wildly different from the rest of humanity? What's frightening and sickening is that a lot of the time... They are just people. The ability to compartmentalise is not confined to people to are mentally ill or sick and sadistic. It's something we all do to an extent. I wouldn't do sick, cruel things to a dog and then go home and cuddle my own dog. But that's because I wouldn't do sick and cruel things to a dog, full stop. The ability to compartmentalise is still there and no doubt manifests itself in other ways. I think men are better at it than women, in general. With so many of us here being ladies, it might be why it's not a conmfortable idea....?

   This is actually really interesting reading on the subject of how normal people can end up doing horrible things: http://www.lucifereffect.com/

 It is Philip Zimbardo's website and he is the same man that ran the Stanford Prison Experiment - "Our planned two-week investigation into the psychology of prison life had to be ended prematurely after only six days because of what the situation was doing to the college students who participated. In only a few days, our guards became sadistic and our prisoners became depressed and showed signs of extreme stress.". All the participants in that study were randomly assigned to be prisoners or guards and were all normal college students.

JackieG

If that's what makes a person a person, I'd rather be a dog.

Did you ever see a deer after a pack of dogs finished with it?

  It wasn't that long ago that dog fighting, bull baiting, fighting chickens, and rat killing were legal and approved of in polite society . Animals were hurt, animals died, animals were killed.  Times have changed about what is acceptable or not, but people are pretty much the same.  Civilization is a thin layer on the human animal, and if scratched, we can be pretty primitive. 

If you read about WW2, you will find that many of the SS and ranking Germans believed that the death camps were necessary and what they were doing was distasteful but necessary.  It was separate from their normal life, which they returned to once in a while. They thought it was a good cause..I am sure that the CIA interrogators who used force in Iraq thought what they were doing was for the greater good.  I imagine many have returned to civilian life and look and live just like the rest of us.

People act according to what they have been taught or trained to do and what they can get away with.  It changes depending on who you are with, where you are, chance of getting caught. It is very situational.  There are cases reported of parents treating one child like a little prince and the other child like a slave. I am sure a psychologist could explain how a parent can be like that. What is scary that studies have shown how easy it is for most of us to be convinced to apply pain to others.

I am not going to say "poor Vick.  Give the man a dog".  But I can see how living in a group the glorifies dog fighting, and not having been raised to dislike it, could lead to his enjoyment of and participation in fighting dogs.  I don't know if that makes him evil personified, or just a person who did something wrong, got caught, and paid the legal price due.

The courts tried him and punished him.  Unless he reoffends, it's done.  Having watched the Vikings lose the big one multiple times, I don't watch much football any more, so I wont see Vick.  The only place I hear of him is on this forum . The fact that he would like to have a dog, but can not, seems just. 

I don't expect good behavior from pro jocks.  Some of them are good people, but many are spoiled children and because of their size and wealth and sense of entitlement, become dangerous.  Drinking and driving fast cars, assaulting hostesses on boat rides, bumping cops down a roadway are just a few examples.

DougB

Did you ever see a deer after a pack of dogs finished with it?

What point are you making?  Sounds rather like you are trying to say that killing is killing, no matter the reason or who or what is doing the killing.

DougB

If you read about WW2,

I happen to have done quite a bit of reading about both World Wars.  I don't need an education in mankind's ability to be cruel and sometimes deviant. 

Too many people use their "situation" or culture or childhood as an excuse for just plain being a sorry human.  As someone said earlier, Vick is a perfect example of someone who doesn't ever deserve to have the love of a dog. 

DougB

I don't expect good behavior from pro jocks

Most sports fans don't either.  It's one of the reasons they get away with atrocious behavior that would find the average citizen jailed or ostracized.  There are good people in professional sports.  I admire them very much.  They seem capable of not using their wealth and situation to be scumbags. 

This thread has really gotten to me.  Not because of Vick but because of a subtle theme of making excuses for being cruel to the weak and helpless. 

DougB

Did you ever see a deer after a pack of dogs finished with it?

JackieG

DougB

I don't expect good behavior from pro jocks

Most sports fans don't either.  It's one of the reasons they get away with atrocious behavior that would find the average citizen jailed or ostracized. 

Did anyone see Vick when he showed up at the basketball game last night (Lakers vs Sixers)??  Everyone loved him it seemed and applauded!!!  They started chanting MVP!!  Made me sick!!!

JackieG

This thread has really gotten to me.  Not because of Vick but because of a subtle theme of making excuses for being cruel to the weak and helpless.

 What I am saying is that dogs, like people,  kill in some situations.  They are not saints.  Sometimes they kill just for fun.  A trained sheep  dog. running with a pack, can go against training and start killing sheep just because it's exciting.  Taken away from sheep, it can still be a good pet.  Same dog, different situation. A sheep farmer would shoot the dog.  A rescuer would keep the dog contained and under control, avoiding sheep.

What I am also saying is that it gets complicated using absolutes with human behavior.  It is possible  for an individual to be mean and rotten in one situation and kind and gentle in others.  I don't know Vick so I don't know what he is like.  I know he hurt and killed some dogs.  He was punished for that. Our laws say that he has paid the price for his actions.  It should be done.  I can understand not liking him, but the hate he generates amazes me.  It seems to be a waste of energy to hate him.  He certainly doesn't care-primarily because he probably doesn't know.  His fans don't care, and he can throw a ball. Obsessing about the mans failings might be fun, but accomplishes nothing. He might actually be doing some good by now. Under Christian beliefs, if a person commits an offense against you, then asks for forgiveness, if they try to make things right and complete some form of atonement, they deserve forgiveness.  Not the same as forgetting it happened, but letting them try to live a better life.  Some of the replies sound like Vick deserved the gas chamber and refuse to admit to even the possibility that the man is capable of change.

There is a difference between trying to understand something and excusing it.  

I am thinking about how deep a hole I want to dig for myself.  I am going to stop here.

Johnny&Tessy

Jackie, you're mean and cruel to me all the time and I don't make excuses!  :)  hehe

LMBO!  Thanks, Johnny.  I needed that.

I get what you're saying, Doug.

miranadobe

 Let me assure you, there are PLENTY of people who would love to give him a dog as a show of their support for him.  No reputable breeder required.

Dear Lord, please NO!! This statement sent shivers up my spine...... like when I heard for the first time that he wants to own another dog! I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the fact that some of my male friends feel that he should be forgiven and he's "changed." There is no reasoning with these people - one of them posted on my FB page something like, "All you puppy lovers have hated him right into the playoffs and maybe the Superbowl. Gotta Love it." Appalling and supremely ignorant!!

Someone who is capable of doing the things he did to those dogs should never be trusted around another animal unsupervised again as long as they live. Do I think he should meet some of the dogs who survived and are being rehabilitated? For the sake of the dogs - He*l no!!!! How much more trauma would that do. I am not surprised he hadn't asked about or mentioned them in interviews..... why would he when he's been rewarded for what he did with his mega bucks football contract back?

doG forgive me for saying this, but I pray every day that he suffers a horribly excruciating, career ending multiple compound fracture on the field for the whole world to see. The End.....

For those of you who swear you could never compartmentalize like that, or be situational, can I assume that you are all vegans?

If you are not, do you ever eat ham? Order an egg mcmuffin? The conditions for factory raised animals in this country are just about as bad as what Michael Vick did, maybe worse. Pigs and chickens live in horendous conditions and it is perfectly legal. While those animals may or may not have been killed humanely, their every day life is a living hell.

If you knew someone who kept an animal in their house in those kinds of conditions, you would say that they were a wretched human being who should burn in hell.

And yet, because we aren't doing it ourselves, we don't see it, and we feel it is necessary to give us cheap food, then it's okay. Sounds like situational ethics to me. Because it's not a dog or a pet, it's okay. If it's not okay, where is your outrage?

We are all guilty of situational ethics and compartmentalization to some degree.

If I interpret this correctly, it is his children who want the dog... He is not married to my knowledge....Do the kids actually live with him?  If not, there is plenty of child support money available to obtain and care for a dog....I dont want to penalize kids for parental behavior.

Just dont get me started on the entitlement attitude of some professionals (in sports, or entertainment etc).

Ok so let's give all those alcoholics a drink as part of their "rehab",  let's give cocaine to all those former drug users and let all the child molesters work as teachers in an elementary school.

Nothing could go wrong, right?