Is it ok to spank your dog?

Hitting is hitting.

 Absolutely not! Grabbing her collar and forcing her to sit is a good way to get bit. You are teaching your pups to fear you! Also, whats the point of this? Your supposed to be her safe person.

And while I don't think that yelling about abuse to anyone I've never met before is the answer to anything either, I can't really side with you on this.

My POV on hitting is that it instills fear and a sense of unpredictability where you are concerned. At least with my big dog, it would take a great amount of force to really hurt him. But swatting at him, hovering over him menacingly, stomping my feet to make a loud noise, or yelling even, can cause some fear issues. And why on earth would I want my dog to fear me?

Thought a bit about this before getting involved.  Don't over think this, don't be too worried-unless the spanking was a pretty good clout to the head.  The lab wont be too upset.  They just don't get too upset in a situation like this.  I think you could hit a lab with a 2x4 and it would still smile at you. It may be more effective to just put a leash on the dog that misbehaves, exerting control without punishment.  

My ESS is a "soft" dog, and the only time I hit her is when we are on the floor rough housing.  A firm "NO" and hooking up a leash has been all that was ever necessary to correct her behavior.  I have used a nose tap to get the attention of some previous dogs.  Not hard, just a tap. I don't know how your dogs react to slaps.  I've seen some people use forceful methods to train, with good results.  

Teaching a strong "leave it" command  without distractions may help.  Also using a leash in public may help to avoid the problem.  I prefer using rewards.  Then the dog doesn't hesitate on recall.

My personal belief is that there are occasions  when aversive controls are effective, when children should be spanked, and dogs require  firm corrections-especially when safety is at stake and rewards are not working. 

 Kirby loves getting whacked on the rump especially if there is rough scritching in between.

 I don't use spankings for corrections.  He is also not a dog that would do go with physical placement.  Even though he is super submissive, you would run a risk of blowing out his knees with as much pressure as it would take to force him down into a sit.  If he is reactive or gets distracted around something that is usually my cue to body block his line of sight until I can regain his focus.

hayley018

Anyway my lab decided to do her own thing and so I grabbed her by the collar, pushed down on her bum so she sat and tapped/spanked (really quite gently) the top of her head. I said 'NO SIT'.

Is giving your dog a light, non-painful tap/spank/slap/whatever going to scar your dog for life and ruin your relationship with your dog? No. But is it going to make your dog listen to you better? No.

IMO, 99.99% of the time when we physically correct our dogs, either by slapping, or spanking, or tapping, or whatever, it's for OUR benefit, not theirs. It makes us feel more in control. However, your dog most likely has no clue why you're doing it, might not consider it a punishment anyway (dogs like to play rough), and you run the risk of teaching it something you don't want to (like "SIT"="NO SIT"=spanking - so the dog doesn't want to sit anymore!).

I think the lady was out of line yelling at you, but I also think that you and your dog would benefit from abandoning the idea of "spanking" and using more effective training techniques instead. :)

hayley018

I ignored her as I did not want to enter into discussions as she was walking away and have a shouting match on my hands but was I right or was I wrong?

Honestly... I would probably have done the same thing if I saw someone hiting their dog. Wack, spank, hit, whatever you want to call it, you're still striking the dog.

I would definately try other ways to communicate what you'd like besides grabbing the collar and the "hitting".  I agree with the others those things usually only lead to other problems like mistrust.   

Willow must obey what I tell her and we don't move on from one thing if she doesn't do it.  If I was to tell her to sit and she didn't, we'd be int hat spot until she did.  And, I will wait! 

Also, for what it's worth, just using the words, "no, sit" would confuse my dog.  That could be one of the reasons they aren't responding as quickly as you'd like.  What I mean is, "no" means for them means NOT to do something-then you are saying the command.  

It's like when I first started with Willow, I'd tell her "sit down"--she'd be all sorts of rattled because she didn't know if she was supposed to "sit" or "down" or both!  She at one point started sitting and then laying down all in one motion, see what I mean.  They cannot put it all together sometimes.

thanks for the replies.

 I agreee that it probably just makes us to feel better after spanking, I can't remember who said that...but after thiking about it, you really do have a good point. I guess its just so infuriating sometimes when you know they are just misbehaving

Quite often I just repeat things and don't move until they behave...The lady only made me mad because she didn't see the whole situation...Telling me i'm 'cruel' and 'abuse' my dogs just isn't fair. Saying 'why are you hitting her' would have probably got my attention and made me re-think what I was doing.

Honestly (please I'm having a bad day no more abuse needed) I do think i'm more likely to 'tap' 'spank gently' whatever you wil call it when i'm stressed. I am in over my head with 4 sometimes (I also have 2 parrots and a cat all rescued) and I work and go to uni and look after the house etc. Some days are more stressful than others and if i'm having a bad day and one of the dogs is also having a bad day I guess thats when it would happen.

 Sooo in future I wont use NO and SIT in the same sentence (unless I dont want them to sit) and I wont yell when there sitting. All good points.

Thanks for all the advice.

And, that is exactly why I don't really like spanking.  I think it's just done when the parent of either dogs or kids get to a point where they are so frustrated they are taking it out on the animal or kid.  It's not teaching them anything like people try to justify it with.   

I think if they are annoying you to that point then just stop whatever you are trying to get them to do-dont' worry about the whole "leader" thing at that point because you've lost that at that moment anyway.  At that point, even if they "sit" they still aren't seeing you are the leader.  They know a true leader isn't acting the way you would be at that moment.

It sounds like they just aren't good with distractions around. And, that's not unusual-it takes lots of work for dogs to be able to obey as well with distractions around. 

If Willow is all over the place mentally and I really am having a hard time with her.  I will stop and just distract her with something she would like more than what's on her mind already.  For example, if she is pulling for another dog or looking away trying to ignore me for whatever reason it might be.  I will then say something like, "Willow, do you want to go for a ride? Bingo-now she's looking at me again.  Yeah, we are going home because she's a pain in the butt-but she doesn't know that.  So, I've got her attention again.  Now, you can either ask for your "sit" again or just go or both.  

If you are so annoyed that you think you couldn't even do that then just start walking and leave or just sit and do a little time out-whatever it takes.   

I'm not a trainer and others will probably have more scientific advice but my dog can be very, very difficult so this is just from my experiences. 

hayley018

Quite often I just repeat things and don't move until they behave...

Funny, I was just looking at an illustration in a book which shows a dog in four different stages of hearing a command, with a "?" thought bubble over his head to show "I have no idea what that means...." as the owner repeats the command three or four times in various stages of the dog's position.  From the dog's perspective: So, "down" means with me standing here?  Wait, you just said "down" but this time as my head was looking down... OH!  WAIT!  You said "down" as I sat... hmm.. But you're clearly angry and this is not right, so I will try something else... confusing.

Pretty good illustration of why repeating a command without helping your dog get into the position you want is confusing, and unfair.  Most people want to jump right to testing the dog, because "HE KNOWS THIS ALREADY"... but the dog doesn't for whatever reason (not enough teaching/training/proofing), and the owner blames the dog for the lack of teaching delivered by the owner.

Your original question has been answered, so I won't beat that to death.  PS, I'm glad the woman came down on you, to be honest, because it DID make you stop and look at what you're doing. It may have been a shock to your system, but it had a clear impact on you, so I'm glad you're reconsidering your plan of action for the future.

hayley018

Quite often I just repeat things and don't move until they behave...

I missed this the first time.  I don't repeat the commands.  I don't move until she does what I ask.  But, as Paige mentioned, you have to make sure they know what you are asking. 

I do understand overwhelmed but hitting is still hitting.

Labs tend to stay "puppies" for a very long time so you really do need to find a more effective way of dealing with the "opps I forgot" attitude he may have for a year or more yet.

A leader should be calm and in control, always reasonable and consistent.  Being a leader requires more than force to have your requests obeyed.