I almost got in big trouble. I need help

Shannon, exactly. It's not really productive to get defensive when someone points out a truth...and yes sometimes it can sting.
 
I think the time to learn your dog was NOT capable or willing to stay at home off leash, given a stimuli, was probably when she ran off those couple times to get pregnant...
 
You already kinda know her propensity...a fence and a tie out are your option and you can also in ADDITION take some classes with an instructor to teach you guys a good recall. BUT IMO the recall should not replace a confinment...confinment protects YOUR dog from other animals as well. I am overjoyed she is now spayed but that will not protect her from another aggressive dog or bitch attacking her on one of her jaunts, (those pups across the road won't always be pups and that may lead to problems as well if they come to view her as an interloper) or even coming onto your property while you are there and doing the same. Nor does it protect her from random acts of violence and stupidity from the public...which has some very sick members among it!
 
I think the long lead attached to your person is a good idea if it's logistically possible without you hurting yourself or her doing so.

Leash law or not. It is a dog owner's resposibility to make sure their dog does not get injured, or does not injure anything else.
 
 

Sofia is like a sighthound who will chase and hunt if offlead and will NOT recall. I do not have a fenced yard, it's not my yard to fence (I rent the basement from the landlord who lives upstairs). But she has a dog run, which is a cable between two trees about twenty or thirty feet apart, and a cable that runs the length of it that attaches to her. She has LOTS of room to frolic and dig holes and hunt mice.

I do not leave her out there unattended because I can't see her from the window, and because she is wicked smart at getting clips unhooked, which she will do if not watched. So we go out and play and she will spend an hour or so on the run just goofing off while I talk on the phone or do stuff outside.

The point here is that there are options.

Loose dogs travel. Loose dogs go visit other dogs, and often get in trouble. It's a GIVEN.

Here are some of the things that can happen to loose dogs:

1. Cars/trucks highway death.
2. Shot by people for getting into livestock. Shot by people just because people are mean. Shot by people because they were attacking THEIR dog on their own property. Etc.
3. Antifreeze: often left out, often pooled under cars, and sometimes left out in order to KILL ANIMALS (people are totally sick).
4. Caught in a trap meant for a coyote, wolf, prairie dog, marten, etc.
5. Poisoned by food meant for other animals. Poisoned by eating a rodent that ate poison and crawled outside to die.
6. Attacked by other loose dogs.
7. Stolen and sold for medical experimentation.
8. Stolen and sold for a puppy mill breeder.
9. Stolen and used as bait for fighting dogs to kill.
10. Euthanized because your dog bit someone while out running around. Whether it was your dog's fault or not.
11. Wild animals: raccoons can do major damage to a dog. Rabies can be passed. In some areas wild rabbits carry tularemia which kills dogs if not treated right away. Moose stomp dogs to death. Bears and dogs do NOT get along. And one other animal doesn't often kill, but do you REALLY want your dog quilled by a porcupine? Wild animals are often infested heavily with fleas and ticks, which will transfer to your dog as the body of the dead animal cools. In New Mexico, for instance, the fleas carry bubonic plague.

There's much, much more. But I sure hope this keeps at least some i-doggers from letting their dogs run loose. A fence, a run, a tie out. Something. Protect your dog!

I think she realizes she made a mistake, and its hurtful for people to jump on your case about something when you already know you did it and are feeling bad about it happening and are looking for options.   She said in her post she felt like an @$$, and is now looking for help on whether its possible to train her to stay in the yard or if she does in fact just need to be tied.   That being said... you do just need to keep her on a lead to be sure nothing will happen.
 
 

Wow, this thread sure is cranky!!
 
Angel, try a drag line...I use 50 footers.  If you can't watch her 150%, then tie the loose end to something in the area you're working it.  That way she's confined and safe from the road, but still has some freedom to roam around.
 
I disagree that you can't instill a rock solid recall.  I've called Thor and Sheba off running deer, wild turkeys and rabbits.  Doesn't get much more solid than that.

Let me clarify:

I wasn't directing this at Angel per se. I just really get tired of dogs getting hurt because people think "We live in the country so our dogs can run "free!" No, they can't! I posted that because most people don't think it through as to what can happen to your dog if it starts running around. And the DO run around, it's dog nature!

We're on the internet and hundreds of people are reading this. Sorry Angel, I know you will figure out a way to keep Sara safe!

Don't beat yourself up over it, Angel.  We've ALL done dumb things with our dogs and our kids.  This is a little OT, but when my youngest DS was about 3 he went to the grocery store with DH.  When DH came home he was by himself, so I asked "Where is Liam". DH just looks at me and says "How the hell-o should I know"?  Umm.  Excuse me.  He went to the store with you. Remember that?? DH left him sitting in front of the rack with the little Golden Books and forgot he was there and came home without him. Fortunately the store was about 5 minutes away and when DH raced back there, there Liam was, still sitting there looking at books.  He didn't even know he'd been left behind. []

Joyce

Angel, you can't leave her off lead honey, don't get defensive. We have all done something like this, but she could be hit by a car and I know how much you love her, so do a long lead from the house so she and you won't feel she's on one.

Angel -- this may be another long-winded Callie post, but bear with me and maybe I can make some of this make sense.
 
Let me first say a lot of the 'heat' above is about semantics--- "words" specifically and the emotions they evoke.  Most of us who are 'regulars' on here are about as "crazy" to the rest of the world as anything.  Words like "irresponsible" hurt -- particularly when you truly love your dog.  But let's leave all the definitions aside and maybe ... just **maybe** I can bring some clarity here and hopefully not only defuse this but hopefully "make a difference". 
 
I'm not a total antique but I am well over  ... well darn it, if 50 is "collectible" then I'm SURELY that.  But I grew up in a small town in western New York State.  No one locked the back door, and no one kept their dog on leash.  You taught them to 'stay home' for the most part.  And ... if they got away occasionally, you chased them down and "made your point".  Often a harsher point than would be considered acceptable now.
 
Along the way I took in a little street stray -- she'd been abused as a pup, and had belonged to a drunk.  Independant as they came - "coming when called" was NEVER part of her repetoire.  But I occasionally just let her loose because ... well, it's how I'd been reared.  I thought they "needed" it.  I thought it was "good for them".  I thought it was "freedom". 
 
Somewhere along the way when I was over 30 and she was over 10 we moved south to Orlando to a large VERY urban area.  Now I'd been living in a big city up north (Rochester is pretty darned big and VERY urban) and while I was there I kept her leashed because I lived on a main drag.  And I knew she wouldn't 'come' for stink.  But once I moved down here and bought my own home, I relaxed that a bit eventually -- but I very nearly lost her a couple of times. 
 
Along the way here, I've had to change MY thinking.  And frankly, that's a whole lot of the "difference of opinion" above -- some folks consider it "normal" and "desirable" for a dog in the country to be loose.  some folks consider it "irresponsible".  And in total honesty -- ya'll aren't gonna agree in theory until some basic understandings are reached.
 
I've said this before and I"m not getting up anybuddy's nose.  This is 2006.  This is NOT 1960. 
 
Yeah, Callie -- big flash.  But honestly, I'm serious.  Back in 1960 if a dog lived to be 10-12, no matter the size, it was AN OLD DOG.  A dog who lived to be 15 or 16 was very unusual.  A dog who lived to be 19 or 20 -- WOW.
 
Now, it's more common.  Dog "health" is not only a huge issue, it's BIG business.  Not only are we all spending small fortunes on food, collars/leashes, toys and what have you ... we're all spending more at the vet.  We all have opinions (strong ones) on things like vaccination and pest control.  Why?  Because generally we all want a better quality of life for our dogs.
 
but when it shuffles down to everyday life -- most of us have changed our minds enormously about things like whether a dog should EVER be unleashed. 
 
See Angel -- you come from a standpoint that *assumes* it's natural and desirable for your dog to be offleash for periods of time.  I *used* to feel that way.  I don't any more. 
 
Does that mean I think you are bad??  No ... but it also means I'm probably gonna try to get you to understand MY point of view, and hope I can sway you. 
 
Glenda, bless your heart -- I bet you DO have dogs with perfect recall.  I'm not gonna say it doesn't exist -- but I'm also gonna readily admit that as much training as I do with my dogs -- I've never had it.  Probably part of that is my training, and part of that is likely how much time I've devoted to it. 
 
But I have come to a hard, hard truth -- and that's that in the reality of MY 2006, my dogs can't be off leash.  Now they are in my backyard because it's fenced.  In the front I might occasionally use a drag line if I'm 100% totally concentrating on what's going on and if I KNOW there are no neighborhood predators (idiot dogs who run amok) that may cause a problem.
 
I used to always let my dogs go to the car unleashed.  Out the door, into the car.  No biggie.  But I had a very similar (and extremely embarassing) situation happen with an Altamonte Springs, police officer a few years ago with my deaf cocker, Muffin.  I was sick and in the middle of an asthma attack and Mufferino got away from me.  I'm wheezing my way down the driveway to get him and I hear "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH" and a bullhorn "LADY -- COME GET YOUR DOG"
 
There he stands in the middle of the road, wagging his non-existant cocker tail at a cop in a police car stopped about 3" in front of him.  I didn't get cited because I had the lead in my hand and two others ON leash (and I was coughing too hard to breathe anyway).  But I did get a stern lecture.
 
In my own estimation I was stupid, dumb and ... yeah, irresponsible.  He was deaf and had NO business being off lead EVER when I couldn't control him (how do you call a deaf dog in from the back yard???  with a flashlight and you hope he hasn't put you on "ignore"!!!).
 
That was only the "final straw".  And since then none of the dogs get out where they aren't contained BY FENCE without leashes. 
 
Freedom?  You know, that's vastly over-rated.  What they REALLY want is to have fun with us.  So they get to go in the car any time I can possibly take them -- even if I have to INVENT places to go just to give them some fun. 
 
Because bottom line ... their safety (and it really truly boils down to that word "safe" more than any other thing) means more to me than their freedom or my convenience.  And Angel, I'd bet next week's check this hasn't one single thing to do with 'convenience' on your part -- you just plain aren't like that.  You are dedicated -- that's plain.  But my bet also is that you likely feel "freedom" is very important to them.
 
It's really not.  "Freedom" is meaningless if some idiot drunk driver AIMS at your dog just because he's mad at his wife or boss -- your dog doesn't have to be in the road to come to grief.  And honestly that's really where this all goes.
 
The dog unleashed ... even in your yard ... is at risk.  Because unless you have that incredibly rare 100% perfect recall, then frankly there is always going to be that super RARE occasion when that "thing" that the dogs see that is SO incredibly, unbelievably, DOGGIE-ATTRACTIVE that they lose their brains and go where they ought not.
 
A month ago, someone was driving down my street -- stopped at a 4 way stop and for some totally unknown, unforseen, totally ILLOGICAL and brain-dead reason when they crossed the intersection (just houses on 4 corners -- no big huge intersection and no traffic), they gunned it, jumped the corner curb, barrelled thru a six foot solid hedge and TRASHED the steps to the house on stilts behind (we're talking a quarter million $$$ home here).
 
No one apparently got hurt.  WHY?? why did this even happen?? How *could* it have happened?? My husband and I have looked at this over and over and it makes absolutley NO logical sense how it could have happened -
 
Maybe someone had a heart attach at the wheel?
Maybe someone was drunk?
Maybe someone was having an argument (on the cell phone or IN the car)
Maybe someone had a seizure?
 
Had ANYTHING living been sitting on or near those steps it would have been dead. 
 
No, Angel, this isn't YOUR situation.  But my point is ... absolutely anything at all can happen. 
 
One of my best friends had a Welsh Terrier -- he was IN their fenced yard!!  He saw a squirrel.  He barrelled at the fence with all his little body -- and the gate gave way and opened.  He barrelled after the squirrel into the street, got hit by a car and killed instantly.
 
Horrible, terrible and unavoidable accident.  But he WAS in a fenced area.  Granted -- maybe not an infallible fence and a gate that wasn't great.  She had it on her "honey do" list.  She WAS watching out the window and took her eyes off him for a split second. 
 
My point is  .... to this day SHE feels responsible.  To this day she bears horrific guilt.  Because she KNEW he chased squirrels.  Because she KNEW he lost his brain when he saw one.  Because she KNEW the gate wasn't great.  Because she DID take her eyes off him.
 
Angel -- a whole LOT of us have stories like these in our "history". So we long ago made a stiff judgment that says "Dogs need to be ON leash ALL the time" (or at least unless they are safely contained).  And this is where words like "irresponsible" creep in .... mostly because those of us (particularly those of us who are sorta older than dirt) who know sometimes the worst WILL happen ... we also know it can be avoided by doing that one more thing that might diminish fun, it might diminish freedom, it might be a thing we aren't used to doing or *needing* to do ... but doing it CAN save a life. 
 
Angel -- DO continue to train -- use a long leash and it doesn't even NEED to be a "leash" but a new clothesline works great.  Get a stake that twists into the ground or make a run line on a pully (but he WILL wrap himself around the nearest plant or tree -- it's somehow in the doggie rules).  Walk your property with him at least once a day.  Pointing out "this is OURS ... this is *not*".
 
Why train if you are gonna keep him tied?  Simply because the day may come when the rope snaps.  Or he gets away by accident --  like my Billy yesterday -- I let him out of the car ON LEASH to pee and on the way he got stuck on my keys and it literally snagged his collar OFF and suddenly he was out of the car LOOSE on a major 8 lane highway!! -- but "Billy come" and he WAS back immediately!!.
 
Accidents happen -- they DO happen and they WILL happen.  The word "irresponsible" or "careless" or any other negative thing we may call ourselves comes into play when someone COULD have **prevented** the worst from happening by taking some kind of steps. 
 
I feel for you -- I was reared in a more rural setting and with my whole being I would like to rebel against the encroachment of "civilization" and say "That's why we LIVE in the country!! So we CAN let our dogs have freedom and our kids not have to fight their way thru crap to get to school".  But to a degree - there are still choices that have to be made there in order to avoid accidents. 
 
I'm not getting up anybuddy's nose.  I understand everyone's side -- and altho my heart longs for the day when my dogs COULD run free -- I know those days are gone, just like the day when I could get up and decide it's summer and I don't wanna go to work ... THOSE days are gone too. 
 
It's a shame?  Maybe.  My dogs don't get out "for a run" any more just loose in the neighborhood.  BUT ... I **do** more with them than I ever did before.  I expose them to all sorts of situations and I train them to be good citizens ON LEASH so I can take them with me into a zillion situations and I know they'll enjoy their time and I'll enjoy mine.  Freedom became vastly over-rated when my little old girl wandered away and couldn't FIND home.  And I didn't know someone had let her out of the house.  The fact that she never HAD good recall was immaterial.  The fact that I drove for hours looking for a dead body by the side of the road -- it made a big impression on me.  The fact that I DID find her, but she was so scared she shook for hours -- that too made a big impression on me.  Suddenly keeping her safe ... sounded a whole lot better. 
 
Sorry this was long -- I can see both sides of this, but honestly I do have definite opinions regarding containment.  But I doubt "rubbing Angel's nose in it" is gonna accomplish a thing other than offending her.  So I thot I'd try. 

My previous dog, Sadie, could never be off a lead or her run when outside (unless we were hiking). She was a car chaser, bike chaser, lawn mower chaser, wheelbarrow chaser - anything with tires and she was off. Luckily her hips were bad enough she could only run about 10' feet and had to stop.
BUT - one day my husband had our son and his friend in a HUGE field playing baseball. Sadie was there an hour (off lead side of the field furtherest from the road) with no trouble at all and suddenly she made a beeline for the road and got bumped by a pickup. Luckily the lady saw her coming and had slowed to a crawl - could have been much much worse. But it told my husband something about WHY I ALWAYS SAID NEVER OFF LEAD.
Some dogs simply get distracted and when they do they are going to go do what is in their heads to do.
P.S. I'm not jumping down your throat - but trust me, even after all these years I still mention the Sadie story to remind my husband why listening to me is wise LOL

"rubbing Angel's nose in it" is gonna accomplish a thing other than offending her.

 
That is the most excellent line in the whole thread. It's interesting how almost all people here decry the use of "rubbing a dog's nose in it" to correct a behavior but will immediately do it to a human.
 
In the OP, she knew she had a problem and was simply asking which solution might be best. Not recrimination and browbeating, etc. The second day I had Shadow, and thinking at the time that he was more Lab than Husky, I let him out with me in the front yard unleashed. In almost 5 seconds, he was almost a 1/4 mile away. Fortunately, he found something interesting to sniff. I knew enough to walk to him rather than run after him. I releashed him and did not do that again. As time went by and I realized he was more Husky in temperment and did research, I learned that you do not walk a Husky off leash. I know of one incident where a Husky with a championship off leash obedience award, got interested one day and bolted, never to be seen again. They can run 30 mph for ten minutes or more. At a slower pace of 16 to 20 mph, they can run for hours.
 
I don't think Angel was irresponsible and she does know the law where she lives. She was simply looking for alternatives to prevent a similar event in the future.
 

I would try a cable lead run- you could work something up with pulleys so that she'd have lots of room to sniff and potty.
 
I did this when we lived in an apartment that wouldn't allow fencing. I put my minpin on a 25 ft cable and then there was a pulley system set up along the patio- so he had a very huge arc to wander around in. I also used a harness on him, kept his feet from getting all tangled.

Good luck.

A cable run is good if you don't have many trees. 

My BCs are not at all interested in going anywhere but with me (ditto the two decorative dogs) but we WILL be fencing our new place ASAP.  We went down with the landlord to another farm and showed him what we would be doing - good looking and will add a lot of value to this place, so he's very excited.  He was uncertain about adding a gate across the driveway that would completely enclose the property but now he's on board with it.

In the interest of full disclosure, my youngster Ann ran off from my husband while he was walking her, multiple times when we first moved here - and she ran a couple times straight across the road, which is still our property but has a paved road (45 mph) through it.  A month of training and she doesn't do that anymore, but the fence will still make me much happier.  We were very fortunate that she wasn't HBC.

By the way, you can give your dog some freedom for training, on a nearly unlimited line if you use cotton clothesline - and it's cheap.  By the line, cut the length you want, and tie it to a bolt snap which you can buy in the same place that you get the clothesline.  Fifty feet is the ideal length for training even the quickest moving dog if you are alert.  Never grab any kind of drag line with your bare hands when your dog is running.  [sm=eek.gif]  Tie knots and stomp on the line in an emergency.  

Sheepdog people call this Hope on a Rope.  It's named after a dog named Hope, but it's also "hope" because it gives you a good compromise between freedom to train and ensuring the safety of your dog.  I also call it a portable fence because you never use it to drag your dog back, it's just there to reduce her choices.

Angel, take a deep breath and let it out slowly then relax. I know things can get so frustrating. I'm sending you hugs and Blue wants to give you kisses. We all do things that we wish we could be taken back.[]
 
 
Now some kind advise.
 
I would use a drag line, too. Let her get all the way at the end of leash let her sniff around or play for a while then give her the command come. If she doesn't come to you then give the command again then start brining her with the line saying come when doing this. When she gets to you praise like crazy and keep repeating this until she is coming to you without having to to pull the line it.
 
She may never get to the point where she can be able to be let off the leash and you may have to put her on a tie out and keep a eye on her still.
It can time it took a over a year until I started letting Blue drag the line around with him and now he is so good with recall that I could take it off, but I rather have it on since I live in town.

Angel, just to let you know, you can make a long line, just about as long as you want it, if you buy the supplies in a hardware store. Get the rope cut about 2ft longer than the actual length you want, and a clip. You can also buy rope clamps to make a handle and hold the clip on, but the project is much cheaper if you just tie knots in it. I have on in my car that I use at the park for Max, because I will probably never trust him very well off leash (previous dog was hit by a car). I also have a 6ft one for him because he can chew through most other leashes, so when I send away his lupine for replacement, or I can't find it, I use that.