Tail cutting and Ear Cutting

 Do people who dump dogs off at the shelter, then rant about the shelter spaying dogs, really count? LOL I heard about a local guy running a rescue where he "won't do anything to a dog I wouldn't do to myself". He has a bunch of intact dogs running around his house. Hoarder, anyone?

Let me say first that I absolutely love the look of a cropped and docked dobe. I do think it makes them look "nobler" and regal. But, I could never bring myself to pay a vet to sever parts of my dog's body because I liked the look that resulted. Dogs are not meant to be fashion pieces. I mean we scoff at body modification of people in other cultures, and in some instances the people actually have a choice in whether they want to change their bodies. For dogs, however, they obviously cannot protest the cropping and docking.

I think spaying and neutering is different because we know there are sooo many dogs that are euthanized or spend their lives in shelters because there are not enough homes for all of them. Dogs cannot think, "hey, there are too many dogs out there already, maybe I shouldn't get pregnant", lol. So, it is humanity's responsibility to look after their well-being by spaying and neutering. Refusing to fix dogs would just mean a death sentence for millions more. It is not for  cosmetic or self-serving reasons. It really is in the best interest of the dogs.

I think in most cases, we like the look of cropped and docked dogs mainly because we have become accustomed to seeing them that way, and not because dogs with natural ears and tails aren't beautiful, too. 

When I see Sequoyah, I don't see an "amputee" but, of course, that's what she is, and I would have prevented it if given the choice.  I would much prefer her to have the luxurious tail that Sioux has, but her breeder had her docked when she was three days old.  The argument is that Aussies are a working dog and you don't want a cow to step on the tail or have to pick burrs out of it all night when the day's work is done.  Having picked many a burr out of Sioux's tail, it is a nightmare, but they get stuck in the dogs' "skirts" too, so what's a few more burrs?  I've never seen my dog move so slowly as to have her tail come close enough for me to step on it, and I'm slower than cows these days;-))

Johnny/Tessy, here's a thread from last year that explores this issue pretty heavily.  Some people may have changed their opinions as the year has progressed (we all evolve, right?)  Anyway, it highlights a lot of potential arguments on either side.  My post on the page I link to should give you a pretty good understanding of my opinion on cropping and docking.  (I've owned Dobes and Cockers)

http://forum.dog.com/forums/p/91399/731038.aspx#731038

Thanks Paige.  I figured there'd been discussions on this topic in the past somewhere.

In terms of the law that is going to be passed, Johnny, it's because New Brunswick (your neighbour) has already passed it, and PEI (where I am) is working on it (I think something about May being the date for it), so it will likely follow as well.

I'm going to be honest and say that it's one "law" that I fully support. Normally I am not a fan of government making decisions for us about how we care for animals, but in this case I think the animals will receive greater benefit for it, and I have always been fully in support of abolishing tail docking and ear cropping except for medical necessity by law.

Johnny, you're also likely to see a poster going around the vet clinics in your area that looks  like this:
http://miniatureschnauzer.ca/poster.jpg
It's being promoted by the entire CVMA and the Sir James Dunn Animal Welfare Center (as well as those other orgs listed).

LOL, thanks Kim.  That was one of the 200 things on the chopping block today!  Try to find out more info...but you just gave it to me so thanks....one less thing to do!

I figured if someone would know about this news it'd be you.

sl2crmeg

As for docking and cropping, I've always been a 'live and let live' kind of person - I'm honestly not educated enough about the issue to make a decision.

Ditto for me.  I love long floppy ears, but that's my opinion and personal preference.  I asked Amanda about the whole cropped ears as it pertained to Cher and remember her real concern over the infections.  If it helps prevent/eliminate infections then I guess I would be for it.

I am against ear cropping for my own dogs, my minpin didn't have his ears done and they are very expressive.  Up, down, helicopter, rose varying with his moods, vs just up or back with cropped.  Although he had his tail docked at 2 days by his breeder.

I also bred a litter of toy poodles and had their tails docked- I did NOT like doing it, AT ALL, and won't if ever I had a litter. The poor little pups cried and screamed and nothing will convince me that they don't feel pain.

Were I to get a breed traditionally docked/cropped, I would not have it done unless it had already been done, typically in the case of tails.  Although, lookng at that poster, all those dogs are gorgeous with all their parts intact!  Look at the OES and the cocker with their beautiful expressive tails!  Gorgeous. :) 

 I would not do it to a dog of mine.  I REALLY dislike the look on bully breeds.  I don't know that I've seen any bully breed with a crop that I like.  I recently saw an imported natural earred and tailed dobe at a rally event that looked awesome.  I tend to prefer the "natural" look.

 I think it's a little weird that the removing of ears and tails is made OK or not OK based on breed standard.  If someone has their dobe puppy cropped and docked to prevent ear infections and tail injuries most people wouldn't think anything of it, but if I announced that my lab puppy was docked and cropped for the same reasons (labs DO suffer from tail injuries and ear infections, often chronic) I suspect the reaction would be much, much different.

It also bugs me when people say things like "If you don't like cropping/docking you shouldn't get that breed."  Really?  If a person is a knowledgeable, capable, and responsible dog owner that would be a good fit for your (collective) breed, it seems counterproductive and just plain stupid to try to attempt to exclude them from ownership simply because they do not agree with cropping or docking.  

sillysally

 I think it's a little weird that the removing of ears and tails is made OK or not OK based on breed standard.  If someone has their dobe puppy cropped and docked to prevent ear infections and tail injuries most people wouldn't think anything of it, but if I announced that my lab puppy was docked and cropped for the same reasons (labs DO suffer from tail injuries and ear infections, often chronic) I suspect the reaction would be much, much different.

I always hit this wall too when I consider docking and cropping and the reasons different breeds are or are not docked/cropped.  Some of the worst tail injuries I've seen have been Labs. Labs can swim perfectly well without their tails.  I've seen it for myself, if anyone thinks that's the reason they are not docked.  Same with the ear infection issue.  Why don't they crop all flop eared breeds to prevent infection?  As for the ears being cropped to prevent someone grabbing the dog by the ear, is that something the average Dobe owner would have to consider?  The fact is these things are done to fit breed standards created many years ago and arguing otherwise just doesn't hold water with me.  If you are in favor of cropping and docking, I wish people would just state that it's because that is the breed standard and quit attempting to justify it with arguments that it's for the dog's sake.

I do always fall back on my personal dislike of giving someone else control of what I can and can't do with my dogs.  Personally, I would not crop or dock a dog but I respect and will fight for somone's right to make that decision for themselves.  I do worry that if Vet's no longer provide this service, puppies may suffer needless pain and disfugurement.  As you can see, I am very conflicted when this subject comes up. 

There is no real solution until dogs are allowed to exist in their natural state and humans stop tinkering.  But we humans love to tinker with our world and especially with our domesticated animals.  It's in our nature and I don't think that will change any time soon.  If we didn't like to shape animals into our own idea of perfect, we wouldn't have dogs.  :)

the breed standard thing bothers me too.  I mean, realistically, whoever set that standard for GSD's obviously never lived with SIX of them.....I bruise easily to begin with and with all these whapping tails, I'm usually in a state of healing black and blues!!

I am in no way saying that I or anyone else should get to make a decision for others.....I've simply reached the stage in my life where I don't like the idea of doing it or having it done to one of my critters.  Old age I guess......and, if I had it to do over again, not so sure I would have had the skin clip done on my sons as infants either.

 I don't like the concept of cropping and docking to be perfectly honest and I prefer the natural look.  The vast majority of breeds that have it as part of the standard are no longer used for working which was the reason that cropping and docking occurred.

I've seen natural dobe's, danes, weims, gsp's, & boxers and they all look great to me in the natural state - preferable to me

Tail injuries are most common in danes, labs & pitties from what I've heard - happy tail as my vet calls it.

The guarding breeds were docked to prevent someone from grabbing them by the tail and the sporting dogs tails were done to avoid tail injuries while working in the field. I read a study a while ago about GSP's and docking saying that they had now studied the undocked working dogs in Europe and not seen an increase in tail injuries.

Many breeds suffer from ear infections - hounds in particular but no one would crop their ears.  I read that the reason it was done in boxers, danes, and dobies was to make them look more intimidating. 

I wouldn't dock or crop my dog but I believe that it should be legal so as to allow people to get it done safely and properly.  I wish that people would choose not to do it for a 'look' as it doesn't perform a function in the vast majority of cases.

See, this whole "ear infection" argument... if people are going to use that excuse, then by all means, let's start cropping the ears of (horridly prone to infection!!) cockers, poodles, spaniels, goldens, etc.  Just saying... if there truely were a benefit, than surely those breeds should be cropped.

 It makes me cringe to think of backyard croppers/dockers. 

 Although most do not believe that the pain is minimal for both procedures -- if it is done properly, by a licensed vet, it is not painful.  After having all of my Great Danes ears cropped over the past 30 years (and successfully standing in all but my current Dane -- although I am inclined to believe genetics plays a part as the cropping was done very well) -- I can attest that none were in any pain after the procedure. All were done before 9 weeks of age and were bouncing off the walls as soon as they came out of surgery a few hours later.  Unless they inadvertently hit their heads, I never had one puppy cry or whimper in any form of discomfort.  By the time they are taped all the stitches have been removed and the ears are totally healed -- they feel nothing at that point (except when the tape sometimes sticks to their fur -- ouch!).  I admit, it may not look pretty during the times that the stitches are in place -- as with any surgery -- but I would be willing to bet that the loudest anti-cropping/dockers are from those that never had a dog that underwent the procedure -- or by those that had a so-called "professional" botch the job, because he was not as experienced as he claimed.  It is surgery and should only be done by an experienced vet!