rescues

What was your reason for not returning the pups? What was said about you adopting a dog that was 10 days away from delivering? I'm surprised that they adopted the dog out. Did they assume you were fostering the pups? Did you sell the pups, have intentions to sell them, give them away or keep them?? Do you still have them??

Never having this problem before I would think that the written contract supercedes any verbal agreement as it would in a court of law.  If they knew she was pregnant and that close to delivering they should not have adopted her out in that condition.  Stress of new home on top of delivering!  Wow-poor mama. 
 
Personally I would prefer to delay the spay until the pups are weaned.
 
I would assume they will take you to small claims court - just be sure to read your contract thoroughly before going so you can prove your case and have copies for the judge.  Also, a notarized statement from the vet of your spaying appointment, prepaid if you can, will help.  By the time this reaches court the dog will probably have been spayed anyway!
 
Good luck.
 

In this thread... [linkhttp://forum.dog.com/discus/messages/46/233904.html?1140134933#POST553857]http://forum.dog.com/discus/messages/46/233904.html?1140134933#POST553857[/link] ...you said that you were going to sell the pups so unless you changed your mind, I'm sure that is what has the rescue upset.

And, IMO the rescue is perfectly within their rights. You adopted mom, and unless it was specifically written into your contract that you would have full ownership of any puppies born then the rescue should get them back. They#%92re acting in the best interest of the dogs (except for adopting out a very pregnant dog) and they want to know that the pups have shots, health checks, spaying or neutering done and they want to pick responsible homes to adopt the puppies to.

OK sooner you stated your opinion and that is what I wanted even if I don't agree. The part I have a problem with is all the expense I occured not to mention the work and having a person from the rescue not wanting to work anything out as I suggested but only  to be threatened and screamed at  puts me in a defensive position. This all new to me and if I would have known all this would hapen I would have gone a different route. We love our dog and the few pups we have left but feel that this is an unreasonable way to run a business. If the rescue had intended to take control of the pups it should have been in plain english. No communication for eight weeks the bam I want! Sorry for the rant but this has the whole family very upset............RC

[8|]Wow sounds like a crazy mess. How old were the pups when the rescue called to say they wanted them back? Sounds like whoever runs that rescue is a tad touched to adopt out a pregnant dog so close to delivery[:-]

Maybe it would help if you donated the proceeds to the rescue...just keep enough to cover your expenses.

I have fostered newborn kittens (and their moms) and never heard from the shelter until I got a reminder it was time for them to return. I would only call them if I needed some medical advise. So not hearing from them isn't unusual. Even the rescue group I now foster for (Siamese Rescue) doesn't bother fosters unless the foster needs something.
So you adopted a pregnant dog - did you think you'd get to keep/sell the puppies and not pay for them?
When I foster I know there are things I'm going to have to foot the bill for - litter, food, etc. And some medications. The rescue group will supply them to me, and reimburse me if I purchase them rather than wait to get them in the mail.
BUT....the lack of communication goes both ways here (from what I can see). You assumed the puppies were yours (did you ask?) and probably the rescue assumed you were simply fostering.
If you don't have an adoption agreement for mom and pups I don't think you have a leg to stand on. The spaying thing is ridiculous though, although I can understand where they are coming from.
I'd be reading that adoption agreement carefully to see if there is any mention of you adopting all animals involved - if not you might find yourself in some deep poop having already sold puppies.

I think that we are assuming that Robert was SELLING, selling these pups to make money.    The way I read his old thread was that he was trying to just cover the expenses while still finding the pups excellent forever homes.  And, from the first post, I assumed that Robert THOUGHT that the pups were in fact his.
 
 

I have read the contract numerous times and there is no mention of all animals . I was not asked or even did I think I was fostering the pups. In fact I offered to leave the dog with the rescue until the pups were weaned and they were afraid that they would want to keep the dog. Then the rescue suggested we take the dog to get to know her before the pups were born. RC

In response to other questions. Our expenses are at this point over 6 hundred dolars just for the pups. There is no profit and I did mention the expenses in our last conversation and the response was thats my problem. Now I need  a lawyer.RC

BTW I'm not stalking you Robert, don't know if you realize that this is actually the same board as the other.

On the other thread you started there you asked when the pups needed to be wormed, if at all.  Did you get them wormed before selling them, and were they old enough to be started on shots? That thread said you had not had mom to the vet at all, did you ever take the pups? How did you screen the potential homes? The rescue would have done all of this at their expense and adopted them with a spay/neuter certificate if they weren't already altered. The point I'm trying to make is first, if expenses were an issue why did you take in a pregnant dog, and second, like Mary said there are certain expenses you just know you're going to have, and in your case they actually could have been a lot higher.

I'm glad that you say you're not making a profit here but, all you said about it before was "We will try to sell them to good homes and ask that they get them fixed right away." To me, that doesn't show the same devotion to the good of the animal that the rescue would have shown.
 
But in answer to your original post, I would handle it by reading the contract, and if there is no mention one way or the other of ownership of all animals, and the rescue pursues it to that point, then it's time for a lawyer.

I can't see how this would be any different than any other contract.  If it's not in writing, it's your word against theirs, and frankly, I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

With that said, there's a bad taste in my mouth with this whole scenario, but in terms of the legalities, it's pretty straightforward.  Dogs are still considered property in most states (if not all?), and your contract guarantees ownership. Any verbal arrangements would be very difficult to prove or enforce, and I'm sure the rescue knows this, hence the threats.

If it were me, I would read over my written contract carefully, and provided that no mention was made of surrendering the pups, ignore the rescue. Let them sue. I'll bet they won't. It might be a good idea to hold on to the proceeds of your sale just so you have a record, but really, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

One further point about Marynh's post. It is not the buyer's/adopter's responsibility to communicate with the shelter. If you have entered into a fostering agreement, than it should be spelled out in writing, and shame on the shelter for not following up on the animals' health etc. When was the last time you called your local retail outlet and given them a status on your new refrigerator?  It's bad business, and irresponsible, to assume that your client/adopter will do the work for you, especially where an animal's life is at stake.

If you have time, start a letter writing campaign asking the shelter for proof of their claim in writing. Do not accept any phone calls or visits.

Again, I don't like the smell of this scenario, I speak strictly from a layman's legal perspective.

But, remember too that on the old thread I suggested an adoption fee instead of an actual sale and suggested also that they be placed on a spay/nueter contract.  We don't know that he didn't do that.
 
Raising a litter is darned expensive.  Between food, worming, health certificates, vaccines, collars, toys, it really does add up quickly.  And often you don't come CLOSE to recouping your expenses, even with purebreds and planned litters.