"The Myth of Pet Overpopulation" Nathan Winograd's Book

nymaureen

I get so tired of seeing info put out by the Center for Consumer Freedom when they are only out, in their own words  "to shoot the messenger. ... We've got to attack their credibility as spokespersons."

As I posted on another discussion, when the Center For Consumer Freedom was quoted.

"In a 1999 interview with the Chain Leader, a trade publication for restaurant chains, Berman boasted that he attacks activists more aggressively than other lobbyists. "We always have a knife in our teeth," he said. Since activists "drive consumer behavior on meat, alcohol, fat, sugar, tobacco and caffeine," his strategy is "to shoot the messenger. ... We've got to attack their credibility as spokespersons." "

"Anyone who criticizes tobacco, alcohol, fatty foods or soda pop is likely to come under attack from CCF. Its enemies list has included such diverse groups and individuals as the Alliance of American Insurers; the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons; the American Medical Association; the Arthritis Foundation; the Consumer Federation of America; New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani; the Harvard School of Public Health; the Marin Institute for the Prevention of Alcohol and Other Drug Problems; the National Association of High School Principals; the National Safety Council; the National Transportation Safety Board; the Office of Highway Safety for the state of Georgia; Ralph Nader's group, Public Citizen; the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC); and the U.S. Department of Transportation."

That I what I figured. Center for Consumer Freedom,   another Whackko group where people do absolutely nothing for the animals and whine and complain and try to demonize  people that actually do something to help the animals.  Reading their junk  is like reading  Alice Though the Looking Glass, ' Good is really Bad. Up is really down, Shelters aren't , overcrowded, Trans Fats aren't bad for you, Michael Vick isn't that bad ,  blah, blah . blah.....  Anything to hide the truth. Why don't they try getting a life and actually helping animals rather than spreading hate and discontent, which they are preoccupied with. 

nymaureen

I get so tired of seeing info put out by the Center for Consumer Freedom when they are only out, in their own words  "to shoot the messenger. ... We've got to attack their credibility as spokespersons."

As I posted on another discussion, when the Center For Consumer Freedom was quoted.

"In a 1999 interview with the Chain Leader, a trade publication for restaurant chains, Berman boasted that he attacks activists more aggressively than other lobbyists. "We always have a knife in our teeth," he said. Since activists "drive consumer behavior on meat, alcohol, fat, sugar, tobacco and caffeine," his strategy is "to shoot the messenger. ... We've got to attack their credibility as spokespersons." "

"Anyone who criticizes tobacco, alcohol, fatty foods or soda pop is likely to come under attack from CCF. Its enemies list has included such diverse groups and individuals as the Alliance of American Insurers; the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons; the American Medical Association; the Arthritis Foundation; the Consumer Federation of America; New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani; the Harvard School of Public Health; the Marin Institute for the Prevention of Alcohol and Other Drug Problems; the National Association of High School Principals; the National Safety Council; the National Transportation Safety Board; the Office of Highway Safety for the state of Georgia; Ralph Nader's group, Public Citizen; the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC); and the U.S. Department of Transportation."
 

Actually, I believe that I have heard someone from this group interviewed and I think it is nice to see someone blowing the whistle on some of the madness out there.  The entire interview both DH an I were nodding our heads in total agreement.  If I hear one more sob story about how McDonald's and pop companies (rather than poor food choices) makes people fat, the tobacco companies give people cancer (despite the fact that we have know about the tobacco/cancer link for as long as I remember taking health classes in school, and I'm 26), etc I am going to scream.  People need to start actually owning their choices.  As far as I know it has never been a secret that eating too many fatty foods will make you fat, smoking will increase your cancer risk, or drinking too much might make you drunk and will eventually start damaging important parts of your body.  

OK, I'm done...  

No kill is the best way, the way that all shelters should be run, and every single dog in the world should have a home forever.

I also believe in the brotherhood of mankind, how we are all equal and worthy of respect and food and clothing and a job and that not one single person should ever go hungry or not have a home to live in. 

 Life has made me a realist. Not every dog can be adopted, no matter how friendly or sweet they may be, even some that are adopted end up being returned because people are idiots and if having a well behaved dog means they have to work at it, many will either cast it into the back yard or take it back.

 Because we are filling the bucket one drop at a time, and because the bucket is leaking even as we fill it, we must choose carefully the dogs we can help. If you foster you can turn more dogs fostering the ones with simple issues rather than fostering the ones that have major issues. I wish that the world was what I have always wanted it to be, but it isn't.

 There are enough homes for every dog, but not every home is worthy of a dog and not every home is a place where a dog would even want to live.

  I do plan on getting a copy of this book and reading it.I have heard many people commenting on it and think it is a worthwhile read.

 I was actually thinking about this yesterday.  Yes, there are technically enough homes for all the homeless dogs out there, just like I'm sure there are technically enough homes for every foster kid in the US.  However, there is more too it than that.  The homes have to be ready, willing, and worthy in order to take on a homeless pet or child--that's the hard part.

i volunteered to do fostering. there was a posting in the local craigslist asking for help.... i wrote an email, filled out the application... a month ago.. havent heard a thing back to them.

i also wrote to another rescue offering help and we were chatting nicely though emails but i'm not sure what i said to make them not reply back... maybe the fact that i mentioned bulldogs... or that i have two kids... or the i-fence... not sure but they buggered off.

a friend of my husband's is seriously leaning towards buying a pure bred collie puppy from a BYB because the local collie rescue wants you to jump through flaming hoops, and juggle knives while riding a unicycle before they will even CONSIDER you as a suitable owner.... 

isnt that a bit counter productive? 

as for the foster homes already... yay goody thats great what they're doing, but holding the dog there until Mister and Misses Perfect come along is just as upsetting to the dog when they have to relocate it to the new home! and if they dont like the people applying then... KEEP the dog! by all means if its better off with you than in the hands of John Q or the local shelter, then wth is the problem with keeping it yourself??  

Bobsk8

That I what I figured. Center for Consumer Freedom,   another Whackko group where people do absolutely nothing for the animals and whine and complain and try to demonize  people that actually do something to help the animals. 

Now you are attacking CCF for publishing the the interview.  Btw, that interview is published also elsewhere are you going the attack them also.  Winograd is no toadie for CCF nor did they prompt him to write the book.  Why are you attacking CCF for the interview. 

First it was Nathan himself that was attacked

He should visit some of the shelters and see what the real world is like...

Why didn't you respond when his qualifications were posted.  If fact have you ever read anything the the nokillsolutions web site has to say or is that another wacky group also. 

It seem like you all are ready to demonize anyone that upsets you little applecart and won't even look at what the person has to say.  In fact read his book first and then see if his opinion is wrong.  There are a lot of good idea's and ways to innovate.  It's called thinking outside of the box!!! 

But, I guess if you want to follow the old model go ahead. 

timsdat

Bobsk8

That I what I figured. Center for Consumer Freedom,   another Whackko group where people do absolutely nothing for the animals and whine and complain and try to demonize  people that actually do something to help the animals. 

Now you are attacking CCF for publishing the the interview.  Btw, that interview is published also elsewhere are you going the attack them also.  Winograd is no toadie for CCF nor did they prompt him to write the book.  Why are you attacking CCF for the interview. 

First it was Nathan himself that was attacked

He should visit some of the shelters and see what the real world is like...

Why didn't you respond when his qualifications were posted.  If fact have you ever read anything the the nokillsolutions web site has to say or is that another wacky group also. 

It seem like you all are ready to demonize anyone that upsets you little applecart and won't even look at what the person has to say.  In fact read his book first and then see if his opinion is wrong.  There are a lot of good idea's and ways to innovate.  It's called thinking outside of the box!!! 

But, I guess if you want to follow the old model go ahead. 

 

How many No-Kill shelters have you worked at?   

Bobsk8

How many No-Kill shelters have you worked at?   

I thought that we were talking about the book and Winograds suggestions.  Why don't you want to discuss that?

"a friend of my husband's is seriously leaning towards buying a pure bred collie puppy from a BYB because the local collie rescue wants you to jump through flaming hoops, and juggle knives while riding a unicycle before they will even CONSIDER you as a suitable owner.... 

isnt that a bit counter productive? "

Most rescues get really cynical. The goal is to place the dog permanently. Bouncing dogs around is very bad for them. Did you ask why two different rescues turned down your offer to foster? and if you don't like one rescue's rules, try searching here for some other ones for your breed of choice:   http://www.1-800-save-a-pet.com/cgi-bin/public/petsearch.cgi/search_dogs_form

but if several rescues refuse to adopt a particular breed to you, maybe you should think long and hard about why. Maybe the breed isn't suited to you.

Here's the fact of the matter that I think several have hit on. Yes, there are enough homes, perhaps. But how many of these homes think it's perfectly acceptable to tie a dog outside 24/7?  How many feel it's perfectly fine to housebreak by beating the puppy or rubbing their nose in excrement?  Or hey, how many homes just don't want a dog?

 Nathan Winograd is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else.  He certainly has the credentials to back up his opinion.  I, however, don't think he's right.  I've seen too much killing due to lack of space, bad temperment, etc.  I don't live in a perfect world and neither does anyone else.  There are factors Winograd is not taking into consideration, IMO.

mudpuppy

"a friend of my husband's is seriously leaning towards buying a pure bred collie puppy from a BYB because the local collie rescue wants you to jump through flaming hoops, and juggle knives while riding a unicycle before they will even CONSIDER you as a suitable owner.... 

isnt that a bit counter productive? "

Most rescues get really cynical. The goal is to place the dog permanently. Bouncing dogs around is very bad for them. Did you ask why two different rescues turned down your offer to foster? and if you don't like one rescue's rules, try searching here for some other ones for your breed of choice:   http://www.1-800-save-a-pet.com/cgi-bin/public/petsearch.cgi/search_dogs_form

 

but if several rescues refuse to adopt a particular breed to you, maybe you should think long and hard about why. Maybe the breed isn't suited to you.

 

At the shelter where I volunteer, we have had people come in and fill out an application and one of the questions on the app is, How much would be willing to spend on the dog or cat if it became ill, for vet services.   One, of the answers is "Less than $50", which more than a few people check.  Needless to say, those apps go in the circular file, right off the bat.  We have also had people that come in to adopt a dog, and are observed walking the dog around the wooded walking area, yanking the dog every step of the way.  I had one jerk, tell me as he was doing this, that you had to show a dog who is boss right off the bat to train it properly.  I took the leash out of his hand, and took the dog back to it's kennel as I told the idiot that the dog had already been adopted by someone else.    We want to adopt the dogs at the no-kill shelter where I volunteer , but letting people like that have the dogs, is alot worse for the animals than living at the shelter in my opinion.  

RoyallyYours

I don't live in a perfect world and neither does anyone else.  There are factors Winograd is not taking into consideration, IMO.

Finally someone who wants to talk about what he has to suggest and not just get into personal attacks. 

If course it isn't a perfect world and I believe that he realizes that but the goals are something to strive for.  After all if you don't have a goal to work towards how do you ever make progress.  You have to admit that not every shelter is doing everything that they can and I especially direct this to public shelters.  There are many of them out there that take them in, start the clock and when it is time it is time.  He also espouses community involvement and the need for the shelter director to be proactive in that regards.  Heck there are a lot of shelters that won't work with rescue groups.  I have gone and pulled shelties for my rescue myself since they wouldn't release them to the organization.  There also mentions of marketing to sell the idea of a shelter dog to the public.  You might see the limited intake shelters get media time but you rarely see that of public shelters.  Another idea is the availability of times to view and find pups.  How many public shelters are open evenings and Sundays when people are off work and can go look.  The last point he makes is the availability of high volume low cost neutering to everyone.  How much of that do you see.  We have a low income subsidy program but you have to be so low an income that it really doesn't help much.

timsdat

You have to admit that not every shelter is doing everything that they can and I especially direct this to public shelters.  There are many of them out there that take them in, start the clock and when it is time it is time.  He also espouses community involvement and the need for the shelter director to be proactive in that regards.  Heck there are a lot of shelters that won't work with rescue groups.  I have gone and pulled shelties for my rescue myself since they wouldn't release them to the organization.

 I will be the first to admit that.  There's a local shelter here (not naming names) that euthanizes more animals than they adopt out.  Why?  They were sued a few years ago over a purebred dog, so purebreds are auctioned off to the highest bidder.  They also aren't very rescue friendly.  I think if more animals could be pulled, that would create the room they need so they wouldn't have to euthanize.  They also keep a lot of healthy animals off the floor to sell to research facilities.

timsdat

The last point he makes is the availability of high volume low cost neutering to everyone.  How much of that do you see.  We have a low income subsidy program but you have to be so low an income that it really doesn't help much.

We have one here as well, but you have to prove your need for the low cost program. 

He has good ideas, I agree.  At this point in time, they aren't as feasable as I would like, but I hope that we can get there one day. 

RoyallyYours

They also keep a lot of healthy animals off the floor to sell to research facilities.

I'm not sure that happens too much.  After all researchers aren't just looking for any animal for research purposes.  The have specific needs for their tests.  It might have happened in the past but I believe that they are getting their animals from people who are breeding specifically for research.  I know that our public shelter doesn't release any animals to research facilities.