need help picking right breed

 Personally, I'm not a big fan of "outdoor-only" dogs in most climates. Either it gets too hot for them in the summer, or it gets too cold for them in the winter. But I know there are dog breeds (livestock guardian dog breeds, in particular) that are bred to be able to withstand the out-of-doors, so...

1. If it is an outside dog, make sure it has plenty of shelter - not just from the weather, but also from other animals. What if a bear, or coyotes, came and were aggressive? Would the dog have somewhere safe it could take refuge? (This would be important to me.)

2. All dogs are trainable to some extent, but it does take a lot of time and patience. You will likely not be able to allow the dog off-leash until you have trained it to learn the boundaries of the property. Are you able to put in the time needed to train this? An electronic fence system *may* be an option for you, but they also have a lot of drawbacks (they also require training, they don't keep other animals from coming onto the property so may place your dog in danger, the fence systems require maintenace and can fail, they are expensive, and if the dog does break through the fence it will be less likely to come back in since it will get shocked again...)

3. As you said, this is primarily a result of training. You will want to at least have a lot of people over to your property to help socialize the dog, and preferably take the dog off the property also, to get it used to a wide variety of people and human behaviors.

4. Any dog with a decent bark should be a sufficient deterrent for most all animals.

5. I'm a big fan of getting a dog from petfinder or your local pound :) If price is an issue, you probably should NOT get a purebred. Just to warn you. A good dog from a good breeder usually runs $500-$1,000 at LEAST. However, for your needs it sounds like you really want a dog with a specific temperament (is okay being alone and outside, won't be aggressive defending its property) and so you do need to be very careful when picking the dog out. I wouldn't go with any old dog off Craigslist, for example. A little extra time and/or money now could save you a lot of headaches down the line.

6. You don't have to be a "dog person" to have a great relationship with your dog :) (Just like people who aren't "kid people" can love and enjoy their own child, just maybe not large groups of other people's children!)

Edit: my primary concern in this situation would be companionship for the dog. Dogs are pack animals and *need* company. Even a livestock guardian dog that's outside all the time has a group of animals that it considers to be its "pack." Indoor dogs get human companionship. So how would the dog in your scenario keep from being lonely?

well i may have sounded a bit like i'm banishing the dog to solitary confinement. truth is i will spend time with the dog and so will my wife, kids also when they visit. the dog, like my previous one, will be around when i'm outside and i'm outside alot. as for the elements i'll make sure rover is well cared for. having raised livestock for years i know how to provide shelter etc for animals for temps from 110 deg to -30 deg F so no need to worry about that. no bears or wolves or cougars in these parts.

thanks for the advice.

scott

I honestly don't mean this to sound nasty or ratty -- but wow -- this just doesn't seem to be rooted in reality somehow. 

Honestly I have a great deal of serious reservations about this whole situation. You state you will treat the dog well, however you want it to be an outside dog to be **aggressive** to large herbivores like deer. Your term "run off" deer – that’s aggression. Predator/prey – a dog doesn’t understand "my human thinks deer are a nuisance and destructive, so all I have to do is chase them to the boundary".

The idea of training a dog to be selectively agressive boggles my mind. Because such a dog is likely also going to be aggressive to livestock, horses, etc – and in most states, a dog that chases ANY sort of livestock is going to get shot with the blessings of the sheriff behind it.

However -- if you are going to truly be WITH this dog most of the time to "train" it - that may be a whole different story.  But honestly you will find getting a dog to chase and then magically stop at a particular line (particularly without fencing if that is the case) can be foolish. 

Farmers all over the world have dogs -- and obviously that's something that has worked well for many many centuries -- however -- your original post really doesn't address anything except wanting the dog to chase deer.  Now taking the time to train a herder to herd the errant deer to a particular place  -- that can be done.  But it's training INTENSIVE.  And it has to be consistently and patiently done.   

What you describe -- it just seems wrong. A livestock guardian dog BONDS with it’s livestock. But you want an outside dog to be alone, bonding not with the humans (they don’t bond well when an outside dog) but somehow selectively aggressive to deer. YET you want the dog to stop at your property boundaries?

Now -- if you have cattle, goats, llamas, etc. -- THIS would be a task for a LGD.  In your second post you sound like a livestock manager - in the first post you sound like a disgruntled homeowner hating that the deer are eating your garden or something.  Does that make sense?

When a dog chases something, it typically chases to the end of the chase. Unless you have serious fencing (which hopefully the deer can leap but the dog can’t – and even my short-legged basset-beagle mix can leap a FIVE FOOT fence???)

My first guess is you would be FAR better served by this modern invention called a ‘fence’. Keeping the deer OUT would be far kinder and far simpler than trying to manage a dog that you want to be selectively aggressive and yet somehow smart enough to know – with no constant human instruction – what you really want him to do. He’ll be bored and looking for trouble most all of the time.

I’m not trying to be nasty or ratty – but your list is like you want some sort of robo-dog programmed to specifically respond to one type of animal and inexpensive and out of the way the rest of the time. I’m honestly hoping I’ve mis-understood the tone of your post.

Why don't you fence off your yard with deer proof fencing?  You don't have to fence the entire 200 acres, just the area that you have landscaped.  In Texas, you either fence off the plants from the deer or plant things the deer don't like to eat. 

Not to mention that deer CAN be aggro right back to a dog...esp a stag, and esp in rut. It might be content to simply gore the dog and continue on it's way...and if the dog were to become scared of, or unable to (injury or illness)...run off the deer...what then happens to the dog?

I'm picturing a cattle dog??  Does this breed meet the requirements, anyone know?

Lori

 German shepherds luuuuurves chasin deer!

I don't like the idea of an outdoor dog under any circumstrances...

sgettin

i know very little about dogs 

i want a dog to keep animals (specifically DEER) out of my yard. i live in the country in the midwest and the deer are so thick a person can't keep trees and flowers in the yard. i have always had a dog but need one now for a specific purpose. i guess i'll just list the details.

1. i live 1/2 mi off the road on a 200 acre farm so space isn't an issue. i'll take good care of the dog but it will be an outside dog and have free run of the place. my last dog never saw a leash or a collar, or a bath for that matter. did get regular pour on bug killer though.

2. the dog has to be trainable not to "run". by run i mean not leave the property. to much of that and someone will shoot it.

3. must be friendly to people and not tend to bite kids. i realize traiing has alot to do with that.

4. must be inclined to run larger animals like deer and other dogs off the property.

6. i'm not a dog person but will train it and treat it well.

so far i like bull terriors and staffordshire terrior but haven't a clue. any help would be appreciated.

thanks

 

Please don't get a Bull Terrier or a Staffordshire Terrier...they are not suited to herd deer; they were bred to take down bulls.  That would be cruel both to the deer and the dog...the dog will become a bad statistic.  In fact, I think you should fence your yard.  If you are not a dog person, maybe you are a fence person.  

leslie, i like the german sheperd idea. that looks like what i need.

callie no offense takin. i don't mean to sound aggressive (i honestly am not) but like one of the people replied my dog will have a job to do. namely that job is to keep animals outta my yard. i realize a dog can get confused and maybe chase the neighbor kid up a tree but honestly my beagle never had that problem. she would keep the yard clean so to speak but she never took after a human. the only pblm with my beagle was she was to centered on rabits. while she did a good job in general i think a dog more inclined to gaurd dog traits would do a better job keeping the deer out.

as for fences. my yard is several acres in size and hilly. not to mention i would have to open a gate everytime i left the place. deere also crawl under gates and unless you make it 7ft tall they jump over it. a gate would work in some situations but is prohibative in miy situation.

the idea that being an outside dog is somehow hard on the dog is mistaken i my opinion. my beagle was an outside dog all it's life and was happy. all she had to do was keep vermin out of the yard. in return she got to do whatever she wanted 24 hrs a day seven days a week 365 days a year and i provided room, board and health care and yes the family spent time with her so she wasn't lonely.

so now i'm thinking german shepard, bull terrior or staffordshire terrior. 

thanks.

sgettin

so now i'm thinking german shepard, bull terrior or staffordshire terrior. 

thanks.

Please rethink this.  You are not even spelling Terrier correctly...you need to read about the difficulties these breeds are facing.  None of us are going to recommend a dog to you that is dangerously close to being prohibited in many places. The Bull Terrier and Staffy are not dogs that should run loose.  If you like them, please do not put them in a risky situation.  You have asked for advice, please take it.  You must have heard all the media around these dogs...why take the chance of contributing to a very bad situation. 

It dawns on me that maybe you are not serious about this...if this is some kind of joke, then don't waste people's time.   We are all about the safe and nurturing care of dogs.  We ARE dog people.  Wrap a fence around your flowers....

Bruister

sgettin

so now i'm thinking german shepard, bull terrior or staffordshire terrior. 

thanks.

 

Please rethink this.  You are not even spelling Terrier correctly..

Or shepherd, lol.

A GSD could do the job and fit the profile, but you'll have a hard time finding a reputable breeder that will sell a good dog to someone who admittedly is "not a dog person" and wants a dog primarily to herd deer.  If you want to get a GSD you should WANT to get a GSD, if you get my drift...

I would just get a dog that you and your family likes, as a pet and member of the family.  I can't think of *any* dog that wouldn't have a grand time chasing deer.

sgettin

so now i'm thinking german shepard, bull terrior or staffordshire terrior. 

Enough people have warned about outdoor-only, selectively guarding dogs who won't roam, can get along with kids & adults, etc , that I won't go there for now.  But a Bull Terrier is almost the LAST dog you need in those circumstances.  Unless you want your house siding chewed, and maybe even other equipment you've got around your property.  An unsocialized Bull Terrier is also the last thing you want around children because these are SUPER powerful, super fast dogs who will toss a toy, hoping for you to grab, and fast as lighting will grab it back and not care if your fingers are in the way.  They will knock adults down as if you're granny with a walker and a broken hip - I've watched large couches and large men take flips when this breed lauches themselves at an object or person.  They also LOVE their people and suffer tremendously without human attention.  Left outside with little human contact will lead to boredom almost immediately with this intelligent breed, and likely destruction or roaming to appease that boredom will follow very shortly thereafter.  Let alone the very real weather concern for this short-coated breed, because they can't tolerate the cold like you may imagine.  Most of the above can go for Staffies, too.  Just DON'T DO IT!  You're begging for trouble and in the end, it could mean a dead dog, an injured person, or a lawsuit - or any combination of the above.

The only other dog I can think of who might fit your needs is an Australian Cattle Dog.  They are happily independent, naturally guard property it seems, have the right coat to tolerate a wider range of temps. BUT make sure you neuter or else you WILL have a dog that roams, regardless of any training you do, if there's no safe containment.  Also, careful socialization with your kids would be absolutely necessary.  In all honesty, I have a hard time thinking most dogs left outside without a TON of socialization would be much good with kids.

Have you thought about other methods, like dousing your property in fox urine?  That's what my family did to keep deer away from gardens, etc. I realize that generally only works in small patches, but are you really trying to keep deer off of all 200 acres of your property, or just away from the landscaping you want to preserve?  Google "discouraging deer" and you'll find products used as taste deterrents, and even something called the Critter Blaster that makes noises of predators and distressed animals that scare deer away.

 By the way, since deer are like the Lyme disease super highway, adding a dog to your property makes him an easy off-ramp for nasty lyme- and other disease carrying ticks.  That is a painful disease for a dog to endure, so whatever "pour-on bug killers" you used before.... um, dump them and spend the money on Advantix applied religiously.  Even that is no guarantee.