Dog Community

My father was almost killed last night! (Sowilu)

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:08:32 AM

We run a small Mexican store and last night my father was attending it when he says that man who had his face covered busted the front door and demanded the money with a rifle. My father said he was trying to calm the man down and the guy shot at my father but no bullet came out so he walked backwards and grabed a case of juice and pointed to the man to look at the door. The guy got scared and ran off and my father called the police and they were there extremly fast. There were to other guys in the store that were there and didn't do anything, my father says he was trying to get the attention of the guy because he didn't want anybody else to get hurt. We are now scare and will not leave anybody by themselves anymore in the store. I am thinking of going to karate classes for anything that could happend. We have never been scared like this before and hopefully this will be the last time. How hard and expensive is it to get a personal guard dog or a guard dog?

All of this and today is my b-day......

rwbeagles

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:13:44 AM

wow....hoot mon that is skeery! You guys stay safe and make sure you have cameras that are working!

Good trained security dogs cost upwards of $2-3thousand I would say. You need to be careful considering that tho, they are not easy dogs and YOU and anyone handling to dog will need to be trained as well...and besides if you have a store then you might have health code violations keeping a dog on site.

I'd actually consider a silent alarm/panic button or firearm with proper permitting and training, before a dog. I am speaking as an adult tho..

Sowilu

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:17:24 AM

rwbeagles

wow....hoot mon that is skeery! You guys stay safe and make sure you have cameras that are working!

Good trained security dogs cost upwards of $2-3thousand I would say. You need to be careful considering that tho, they are not easy dogs and YOU and anyone handling to dog will need to be trained as well...and besides if you have a store then you might have health code violations keeping a dog on site.

I'd actually consider a silent alarm/panic button or firearm with proper permitting and training, before a dog. I am speaking as an adult tho..

We will keep safe we are going to keep it as two in the store: one stays behind the cash register the other around the store.

I really what a security dog, my dream, that was one of the things that came in mind first though since I know how dedicated it will be and I like to be dedicated to stuff like that. My father does not like firearms he does not like them.

janet_rose

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:19:02 AM

I am so glad that your father wasn't hurt!! happy thumbs up Think of it this way. You got a very important birthday present - your father's life.

akyramoto82

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:20:17 AM

thats really scary! I'm happy no one was hurt.

i highly recommend finding a school that teaches real self defense.karate is not necessarily self defense.

I know this is really lengthy, but I think that if you are going to put the time & effort into something like this - the more education about it the better. I hope you read it & take it into consideration.

A self-defense instructor should have all of the following credentials:

A working knowledge of criminal and civil law as it pertains to your rights to self-defense. Police officers and attorneys have the best working knowledge of criminal and civil law regarding your rights to self protection. A black belt means nothing when it comes to the actual knowledge and application of law within the context of a combat situation. Ask a potential instructor what credentials they have regarding criminal law. Simply having a black belt is NOT a sufficient credential for teaching you about your rights to protect yourself. I have two black belts and I can tell you that I learned NOTHING about criminal laws, my rights to self-defense or anything else that would help me to make a good decision in a combat situation while earning those belts. I only realized this enormous oversight in my training once I became a police officer.

A formal education in Sociology, Psychology, Criminology, or other related field. Since avoidance should be the first rule of any class on self-defense, educating your students on the psychology of criminal behavior is an instrumental part in helping someone avoid stalkers, rapists, pedophiles, dating and domestic violence, potentially violent mentally ill subjects, people under the influence of drugs, gang violence, work place violence, people who road rage, and a host of other potentially dangerous situations. Being a black belt or a champion competitor gives you zero knowledge in these areas.

Real life street experience. Look for instructors who are police officers or correctional officers because they are the only people who spend a great deal of time working with and defending themselves from our criminal populations. Additionally, police officers actually get to talk with and interview victims and suspects. This gives them an intimate understanding of violence. Just because a martial art was used in warfare 500 years ago does not mean it is useful in today’s modern society. So ask the instructor what, if any, real life street experience they have dealing with making decisions under stress in a violent situation. Being in a few fights back in high school is hardly what I would consider “experience dealing with street violence.”

If you are a teen or adult female look for an instructor who has experience working directly with victim service agencies. Ask the instructor flat out how many rape victims they have spoken to? Ask them what education or qualifications do they have to teach you about sexual predators, stalkers, intimate violence, date rape drugs, college campus safety, parking lot safety, work place violence and sexual harassment, threat assessment, restraining orders, and so on. Ask them what education they have on understanding the way perpetrators think, the way they select victims, and the ways they attack. Every county has organizations that offer services to victims of sexual assault and domestic violence. For obvious reasons these organizations are VERY selective about who they work with. Most of these organizations will refer you to someone that they feel teaches realistic self-defense for combat sexual assaults. They will not just refer you to your closest martial arts school because they are perfectly aware that realistic self-defense is NOT a martial art.

For children, look for a program that emphasizes education on bullies and predators who use manipulation and deception to gain your child’s trust. Why? Because these are the types of threats our children face. According to FBI statistics, by age 18 one out of every six boys and one out of every four girls will be molested. Additionally, 70% of all children have been bullied by the time they graduate high school. Ask the instructor what education or credentials they have to teach your child on the psychology of bullying and the tricks used by predators to “groom” children for molestation. Once again, a black belt is NOT sufficient.

Here are the types of Credentials that Martial Artist/Competitors use to sell themselves as Self-Defense Experts:

They will talk about their high degree of black belt.

They will have several black belts in many different martial arts giving off the impression that this somehow makes them more “well rounded” in self-defense when it really means they are a well rounded “martial artist.”

They will claim street experience without any real evidence by claiming they had many fights growing up, worked as a bouncer, etc.

They will list or show you medals, trophies, belts or other awards from winning local, regional, national, international, or even world competitions. All of which are wonderful and impressive accomplishments but they say nothing about the person’s ability or expertise to educate you on self-defense. They only represent the person’s ability to perform successfully in competition. As a matter of fact, you can read my article on Alex Gong (click here) that demonstrates a tragic example of how competition records and world championships can get you killed when you don’t understand street violence.

Sowilu

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:29:43 AM

There is a person that teached in Tarboro not far from here and I have a teacher that takes lessons from him. My brother is interested so I will ask my teacher the cost and everything so that my brother and I can defend ourselfs. Yes the best present is my fathers life! I can not bare to think if something would have happend it would be the worst b-day.

sl2crmeg

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:46:09 AM

I agree with Gina. The best thing to do would to have an alarm system installed, with a panic button. BF and I looked into it when we lived in a bigger city, and it's really not that expensive. We used to have one at my old job. They give you a clicker, almost like for a car, and a certain combo of buttons alerts the police and they will respond in 3 minutes or less.

Also, here you can request that the sheriff's office makes extra patrols during the night.

Sowilu

Posted : 8/22/2008 11:48:50 AM

sl2crmeg
I agree with Gina. The best thing to do would to have an alarm system installed, with a panic button. BF and I looked into it when we lived in a bigger city, and it's really not that expensive. We used to have one at my old job. They give you a clicker, almost like for a car, and a certain combo of buttons alerts the police and they will respond in 3 minutes or less.

Also, here you can request that the sheriff's office makes extra patrols during the night.

I will check in to that. They will be on patrol and the sheriff is my dad's friend.

sharismom

Posted : 8/22/2008 12:20:24 PM

Glad everyone is okay.

janet_rose

Posted : 8/22/2008 12:46:11 PM

rwbeagles
I'd actually consider a silent alarm/panic button or firearm with proper permitting and training, before a dog.

The things I would do right now are

get a chest protector (body armor),
install hidden video cameras (with signs advertising their presence - If you can't afford the real ones, there are some real-looking fakes that you could let people see.),
install a silent alarm, and
purchase a gun (or just a sign saying the store is protected by "Smith and Wesson";).

Getting a guard dog is expensive and would require a lot of training for his handler, so that is a distant possibility.

Before I got that training, I would train in street fighting. Skip karate for now. It would take too long to get good enough for it to help you much. You need practical street fighting first and then maybe you can add some real karate later.

Most karate classes are primarily exercise classes that teach you to stop just short of hurting your opponent. Sorry, but a real fight is not the time to figure out how to convert "exercise" karate into "street" karate. You want a more military style karate class.

You have to be very lucky and very good at street fighting to confront a gunman successfully - especially if you are not a large woman. Please think twice before you try that.

CAUTION: A gun should absolutely NOT be purchased until the people who would use it have firmly decided that they can pull a trigger (and shoot to kill) if necessary. I can't emphasize that enough! If one can't pull a trigger, pointing a gun at a robber with a gun is equivalent to attempting (and maybe committing) suicide.

Regular practice at a gun range is required to be sure that you can properly handle your weapon. You certainly don't want to miss the robber and shoot a customer or a person walking by on the sidewalk.

You also have to consider ways to keep your weapon out of the hands of people who shouldn't be using it - children, untrained people, the robber, etc.

huskymom

Posted : 8/22/2008 1:35:19 PM

I'm so glad nobody was hurt. How scary for all of you. I say take the self defense classes, at the very least it will give you a sense of security again.

Oh and Happy Birthday!

janet_rose

Posted : 8/22/2008 1:39:14 PM

Sowilu
There is a person that teached in Tarboro not far from here and I have a teacher that takes lessons from him.

As akyramoto82 said, please check out this instructor's credentials and what he/she teaches. Otherwise, you may be wasting your money.

I have taken "exercise-style" karate (a number of sessions) and a woman's self defense class (one session) - both from the same guy. The classes were quite different. For the self defense class the instructor wore a helmet and padding - and he needed them. Big Smile

I got more immediately usable, practical knowledge out of the self defense class than the karate classes. The self defense class was no-holds-barred street fighting for when your life might depend on it. The emphasis was on hurting the attacker bad enough that he/she doesn't chase you when you run like h*ll. If that means permanent damage, then "se la vie" (such is life). If that means killing the attacker, "se la guerre" (such is war).

The martial arts skills that would allow you disable, but not really hurt, an attacker take years to learn.

Bonita of Bwana

Posted : 8/22/2008 2:01:55 PM

I hate it that this happened to you and your family !! crime is a terrifying thing to have brought into your world. Right now you are overwhemlmed with fear and that is understandable. But allow me to suggest rather than try to bring in a dog which would drive your insurance through the roof or Karate which mean YOU have to come close enough to touch and BE touched ... how about an alarm system?? There are great ones out there. And a Video camera system.. Big decals advising that the store is equiped with both helps enourmously. A panic button in the fornt and one on the back allows for silent alarms to the local PD. ABOVE EVERYTHING do not fight when an armed person comes in , simply give them the money, don't make eye contact . don't negociate ... JUST get through it. Now just to give you a small grin.....

When I was a teen I worked for Fotomat, little booths that sit in parking lots of bigger stores and you took in film for processing then sold film , flash bulbs ( oh Gads am I dating myself !!) Batteries ets... An Armed guy came and robbed me 3 times !!! The first time I was in shock and wept afterwards but refused to quit my job. The second time was about 2 weeks later and the company swore they would have me in a new booth asap. The last time My MOTHER was sitting in the drive through next to me and he walked between us !! She was POed like you would not believe and began scolding him !! I asked her to hush and then asked him if he needed any film with the money??? She looked at me and laughed I laughed the guy turned bruight red !! He never got more than my change drawer because my deposit was always in a bag onthe floor. He took off running and I called the cops, Mom took off after him in her car, Cops got there and said do you have a description?? YES She is a 40ish white woman with Blonde hair driving a Grand Prix ..... They stared at me huh??? You got robbed by a Blonde woman??? No THAT 'S my MOTHER AND IF SHE CATCHES HIM SHE'LL RUN HIM OVER !! they LTBO but whatever I quit that night and They never caught the jerk.

Bonita of Bwana

miranadobe

Posted : 8/22/2008 2:23:03 PM

No advice, other than agreement with some of the security camera installs and panic alarms, etc. Just very glad your dad is ok. A near miss may be the blessing that keeps everyone protected in the future because now you are aware of the potential and can protect yourselves.

HUGS - and I hope the rest of your birthday is an improvement!!

janet_rose

Posted : 8/22/2008 2:54:40 PM

Bonita of Bwana
The last time My MOTHER was sitting in the drive through next to me and he walked between us !! She was POed like you would not believe and began scolding him !! I asked her to hush and then asked him if he needed any film with the money??? She looked at me and laughed I laughed the guy turned bruight red !!

Perfect!! Your words were non-threatening to the robber and completely unexpected. According to the police that is the best way to mentally "disarm" an attacker. You "threw him off his game", because humor and laughter were probably the last things he expected.

I was robbed at knife point once and the guy asked for my cash. I reached into my purse to get it and got shoved into the wall with the knife at my throat. I got annoyed and said "Hold your horses! I'm getting you the cash". He calmed down and replied "Oh, OK." Got to keep my purse!!

I realized later that he actually meant that he wanted my purse. Whoops!

My guy didn't get away. Robbing people at night under lights kind of defeats the idea of using darkness. He robbed me on a lit balcony and did it again to a different woman across the street under a street light. The officers leaving my place picked him up with the knife. Two armed robbery charges with victim ID for purse money - dumb, dumb, dumb.

I learned about the mental "disarming" later from a police officer. He thought I did good, but I sure got ribbed by family and friends for "having a conversation" with the crook.

Back to the OP's topic, just before I was robbed a little voice in my head was saying that this guy calmly walking through my apartment parking lot was bad news, but I blew it off as my imagination. I bet it was my maternal grandmother and I will never ignore her again!

ETA: Whoops! That last paragraph belonged in the ghost thread, not this one.