Sunday Paper Ads

our sunday pet ad section covers more than one page. And no, none of them say much beyond breed and a phone number, sometimes price, sometimes not. Here you have to be really careful- the amish puppymillers place many of these ads so a purchaser may think they are getting a home-raised BYB pup and instead it's an unhealthy unsocialized mill pup being brokered.

Bonita of Bwana

So I am scrolling through the Sunday Paper and looking as always with fear in my heart that MY breed will be advertised. I was wondering how many of you felt the same? What is the most popular breed listed and what are the extremes in price asked with what qualifiers???

     Well ... every so often there are Beagles listed in the paper over here. Not normally, but will depend on which one - there is a Long Island paper that has quite the large pet section, and maybe about 60% of the breeders who list there are reputable. Sometimes in the smaller papers you see BYB ads or Beagles for $75 ... broker price ... so you know they are not well bred. Normal Beagle price though, for the paper ads, is the "hunter price" of $250. Just to contrast, my pups go for $800, and a trend is emerging with field trialers to sell pups for  double what they used to get and older or started dogs for $800-1000. Would I rather the ads didn't exist, and all amateurs stayed out of breeding? Yeah, I would. Show breeders have a bad habit of saying it's "my" breed, but in reality, it's not our breed, it's everyone's breed, we are not the only ones to have rights over breeding them! So while I wish everyone was responsible, ethical and knowledgable, they're not, and the best thing I can do is to not support them. Heck, I know show breeders who are more upset by tailsets that went off than the fact that every pup in the litter had a genetic health defect of varying degrees. And they're not peon breeders either, and not just in my breed. So ....

 

Bonita of Bwana

Not one of these Breeder ads mention rescue.  ( We do) Not one gave a Breed club web site. Or even indicated if they were members in good standing in one.

Would these be things that would be important to anyone but me????  Also not every ad gave prices.  Is this to leave it open for negociation or to make sure the IRS does not know what they are making off of a litter??  Enquiring minds simply wonder about these things

     Not sure what that's supposed to mean? I don't do breed rescue, either. I don't have the tiem or the inclination, and have not done any rescue since I began breeding. Honestly, I will not contaminate my home/kennel with any diseases an unknown rescue may be carrying (this is not far fetched, because North Shore Animal League's practice of importing southern dogs caused a massive distemper outbreak about 1-2yrs ago) and cannot devote time to both. It's either one or the other, and my breeding program is more improtant to me. Right now, my breeding program need to get on track, so I can't devote the $ that would go to my dogs to a rescue. If someone needs help finding a new home, I have helped with that w/o taking the dog in. But that's as far as it goes. I don't believe reputable breeders need to rescue to be considered reputable. It's all one's hobby, interests, and I don't know, I think some people in this sport/hobby take dogs way too seriously. I'd rather volunteer for human causes, than do dog rescue. Somehow, when we have so many problems with our own species, the dogs just pale in comparison ...

     As for not listing prices, it's an advertising technique. Sometimes price may hinder a person from calling, but if the ad looks flashy, and the breeder gets the buyer on the phone, they are more likely to be able to sell their pups to the caller. It has nothing to do with the IRS. Show breeders should be listing their dogs for tax purposes, but 99% do not. Becuase they say they're not making a profit. Well, to Uncle Sam, if money exchanges hands, they are bringing in income, and the government doesn't care if it gets spent back on the dogs ...

HoundMusic

[Not one of these Breeder ads mention rescue.  ( We do) Not one gave a Breed club web site. Or even indicated if they were members in good standing in one.

Would these be things that would be important to anyone but me????  Also not every ad gave prices.  Is this to leave it open for negociation or to make sure the IRS does not know what they are making off of a litter??  Enquiring minds simply wonder about these things

     Not sure what that's supposed to mean? I don't do breed rescue, either. I don't have the tiem or the inclination, and have not done any rescue since I began breeding. Honestly, I will not contaminate my home/kennel with any diseases an unknown rescue may be carrying (this is not far fetched, because North Shore Animal League's practice of importing southern dogs caused a massive distemper outbreak about 1-2yrs ago) and cannot devote time to both. It's either one or the other, and my breeding program is more improtant to me. Right now, my breeding program need to get on track, so I can't devote the $ that would go to my dogs to a rescue. If someone needs help finding a new home, I have helped with that w/o taking the dog in. But that's as far as it goes. I don't believe reputable breeders need to rescue to be considered reputable. It's all one's hobby, interests, and I don't know, I think some people in this sport/hobby take dogs way too seriously. I'd rather volunteer for human causes, than do dog rescue. Somehow, when we have so many problems with our own species, the dogs just pale in comparison ...

 

I guess that is where we have to agree to disagree.  If you Breed how can you not rescue???    There are a million ways to rescue. You can pull dogs from shelters, provide transportation,  foster, whelp litters for girls dumped in shelters , you can educate, work the breed booths, you can donate time, money and effort.  I go to the local rural elementary schools and teach them about care and love for dogs. How breeding deos NOT mean you loe your dog just that your dog's can get a few minutes to hook up.   My dogs are all tested to the nth level  but I would never breed a litter if I did not have the extra money should soemthing go wrong. Then when I have a great litter and everyone is fine I donate a love tax for every puppy to rescue. Each pup I planned and caught, each pup I found a wonderful home for then passes along a bit of money from that sale to a pup who does NOT have a breeder with ethics and a bigger picture to look after them. Baskets are donated to specialties to help fund H&Gmand Rescue.

REPUTABLE breeders spend hours educating, leaving the ads up  longer than need be just to make contact with and help folks interested in the breed they profess to adore.  As for taking the sport/hobby too seriously??? Why bring new souls into the world if you don't???  I have worked for human issues sine I was 14.  this includes spending my summers in other countries giving vaccines and sewing up a grusome machete wound on a drunk who wanted to know if I liked his John Wayne 6 shooters......   I have dug ditches, helped plant and harvest crops by hand, nursed the poor and fundraise like it was a way of life.  If You breed , you owe it to the universe to Rescue ....2 or 4 legged is not the point.

 

Bonita of Bwana

This is from ours..

Poodle/Maltese Mix. Tiny Toys $150+ Shots Health Guaranteed. Will Deliver

Adorable CKC Boxer Pups. F $400 M $350

5 Miniature Schnauzers, $400 to $450 firm

2 Purebred Male Jack Russell pups, has shots asking $300 ea

Bonita of Bwana

REPUTABLE breeders spend hours educating, leaving the ads up  longer than need be just to make contact with and help folks interested in the breed they profess to adore.  As for taking the sport/hobby too seriously??? Why bring new souls into the world if you don't???  I have worked for human issues sine I was 14.  this includes spending my summers in other countries giving vaccines and sewing up a grusome machete wound on a drunk who wanted to know if I liked his John Wayne 6 shooters......   I have dug ditches, helped plant and harvest crops by hand, nursed the poor and fundraise like it was a way of life.  If You breed , you owe it to the universe to Rescue ....2 or 4 legged is not the point.

     I don't have any obligation to go out and seek to do rescue. My pups are sold to good homes, I offer a take back clause in my contract, I do all I can to provide a safe, permanent environment for every pup I breed. I do have two dogs that I never was able to sell still living here. One is going to be placed up for sale to a hunting home only, the other will probably just stay here. I'm not creating any messes, however, I have done rescue in the past and occasionalyl will help someone place a Beagle w/o taking the dog onto my premesis. Rescue is something that, like breeding, is a hobby of the indivigual person doing it. It's not my hobby, I have work, and my own dogs to care for and feed. I take my breeding program quite seriously, otherwise, why even breed? What I do not do is take these issues so seriously that I believe dogs are just as important as humans and that I am somehow obligated to the universe to rescue dogs just because they happen to be the same breed I raise. Rescue is also something as I mentioned I have been involved with, both with working as a paid employee at two different NY shelters after high school and being involved with private rescue. It's not something I wish to continue. I don't need to offer any explinations as to why. Again, I am not obligated to take on someone else's dog that they couldn't keep because it happens to be the same breed I raise.

     I don't believe in karma, don't believe animals have souls, or that I owe anything to any universe or solar system or have to pay some sort of debt for breeding. That may be politically correct "lingo" but it's not in my vocabulary. I do my part for people, whenever I can, and only pray that it's enough. People who know me off the computer know what I have done for God's creations. I don't feel the need to discuss it, or to tout myself as a rescuer, or to purposely seek out rescues. It's not a priority in my life.   

HoundMusic

[
     I don't believe in karma, don't believe animals have souls, or that I owe anything to any universe or solar system or have to pay some sort of debt for breeding. That may be politically correct "lingo" but it's not in my vocabulary. I do my part for people, whenever I can, and only pray that it's enough. People who know me off the computer know what I have done for God's creations. I don't feel the need to discuss it, or to tout myself as a rescuer, or to purposely seek out rescues. It's not a priority in my life.   

As I said we should simply agree to disagree. 

Bonita of Bwana

without sorting the numbers and putting in categories i'll just add the link.... http://search.tallahassee.com/sp?aff=1102

 

i will say that CKC is popular around here...... if that tells ya anything.  

I cannot bring myself to look at the paper ads because it infuriates me.  I don't believe that animals should be advertised in the paper and I think that it should be the breeder's obligation to home their animals.  I think that each breeding should be made for the betterment of the breed and dogs that are not working (ie showing, hunting, protection, etc) should not be bred...but that will never change.  Just because Fluffy is a nice house pet does not provide the grounds for needing to breed.

 I hope and pray that there are no Malinois in the paper...EVER.  This is not a breed that is for a green handler and definitely not for 'paper-ad buyers' that do not really know what they are getting into.  The breed is to high maintenance and many of them are quite sharp if being bred for herding or protection...not necessarily something that is suitable for a family home that wants a pretty dog to lay by their fireplace and go for a walk only on days like holidays or when the weather just happens to be nice.

 We do not breed but co-own dogs that may at some point be bred by the original 'breeders'.  We are active advocates of malinois rescue in this state...I think that if you are for the betterment and preservation of your breed of choice, it is somewhat a moral obligation to help dogs in need, especially if you are contributing to the numbers.  I enjoy educating the public about my breed, it is nice to demonstrate your breeds highlights as well as provide awareness in the proper home and care.

 As someone has already stated...agree to disagree.

 HoundMusic, contemplation of whether animals have souls is a complete other topic not even really for debate.  Probably 1/2 of the ads are posted by the owners of "Fluffy" who wanted to witness the miracle of birth, a 1/4 by brokers, and a 1/4 by mixed breed designer dogs.  No one is putting you in any of these categories so not sure why you are so defensive.

I find the ads disheartening and hope my breed never ends up there.  In the meantime, I am taking every measure I can...as a breeder, to help prevent it.  I know it takes extra time, but by being a member of our club, by heading up our breed rescue, by keeping good records and promoting education, and planning future litters carefully, I hope these things will have an impact on the breed.  It's not cheap to demand genetics, tests, and PennHip every dog, to show and Ch dogs before breeding.  But why breed at all if not to improve quality?  That's being responsible in my book. 

fitzfids

find the ads disheartening and hope my breed never ends up there.  In the meantime, I am taking every measure I can...as a breeder, to help prevent it.  I know it takes extra time, but by being a member of our club, by heading up our breed rescue, by keeping good records and promoting education, and planning future litters carefully, I hope these things will have an impact on the breed.  It's not cheap to demand genetics, tests, and PennHip every dog, to show and Ch dogs before breeding.  But why breed at all if not to improve quality?  That's being responsible in my book. 

     I agree in that it would be unlikely I'd go and buy a dog from a newspaper ad, or that I would recommend anyone else does, either. I think they do have every right to advertise there, and the people who buy from them are not ones who would even have the dog saavy to seek out a reputable breeder. Most hobby breeders don't breed enough to supply pet pups to John Q Public, even the ones who would be great homes for the breed. On average I breed 7-14 pups per yer ... Pups advertised in the paper may not be able to compare w/ my pup's breeding, but lots of people don't want to pay $800 for a pup when they can get one from a commercial breeder for half that. Some of what is in the paper is genetic junk, but by odds, not because it's in the paper. In the end, these dogs will have little to no impact on the breed because influential dogs are coming out of well known kennels that have producing dogs, usually with titles. Those are the dogs that affect the breed.
     My gripe about rescue is that I am not contributing to any overpopulation problem nor am I creating a mess whereas I should be obligated to clean up someone else's just because I own that breed. I do not seek out rescues. I have helped people place Beagles and have done rescue in the past but am done with it now. I don't have any guilt trips about breeding, and feel that I am doing my best for the breed and only hope what I am doing will someday leave it's legacy long after I'm gone.I agree why breed at all if not to improve quality, but the average buyer knows nothing about breeding or improving the breed or what types of breeders there are. In an ideal world everyone would be breeding to improve, but sometimes people's definitions of improving and what a good breeder is becomes so narrow and pigeonholed it gets me furious. And sometimes there are just not enough reputable breeders with pet pups available to the general public ... So they turn to other breeders. They have every right to and those breeders in the paper have every right to produce good quality pets so long as they are being ethical in their practices. JMHO.

If you are contributing to the population...you are contributing to the overpopulation...period.  There is only one population of dogs in this country...not some special population for 'special' breeders.  I am not saying don't breed and I am not saying you have to rescue to be a moral person.  I just think that it is a more responsible person and breeder that does contribute to not only the betterment of their breed but of the preservation. 

fitzfids

 HoundMusic, contemplation of whether animals have souls is a complete other topic not even really for debate.  Probably 1/2 of the ads are posted by the owners of "Fluffy" who wanted to witness the miracle of birth, a 1/4 by brokers, and a 1/4 by mixed breed designer dogs.  No one is putting you in any of these categories so not sure why you are so defensive.

I find the ads disheartening and hope my breed never ends up there.  In the meantime, I am taking every measure I can...as a breeder, to help prevent it.  I know it takes extra time, but by being a member of our club, by heading up our breed rescue, by keeping good records and promoting education, and planning future litters carefully, I hope these things will have an impact on the breed.  It's not cheap to demand genetics, tests, and PennHip every dog, to show and Ch dogs before breeding.  But why breed at all if not to improve quality?  That's being responsible in my book. 

Fitzfids I really agree and appreciate that you understood what I was trying to say in my op.  On the rare occasion I see RRs in a paper I contact the breeder, I ask questions about the dogs. Not enough to allow them to be able to trick a buyer but enough to find out if they are tested, pedigreed, what kiind of stock, what kind of care etc.  IF they seem like folks who really love the breed I offer to help them get to know more of us and then I the future help get them into the club.  Like Rescue , for me mentorship is a vital part of being an ethical breeder.

For about 2 years almost every Sunday ad was for small dogs.... my Hubs calls them handbag dogs.  Before that the trend was for Guardtype dogs and yes once in a while I would spot my breed.. There are certain areas I am more likely to find a a rr in the paper than others/ My friends with Mastiffs, Border Terriers and Irish Wolf Hounds feel the same way and in 27 years I have only seen 1 ad for BTs , and a handful each for the other breeds. I know I have seen less than 8 ads for RRs or RRXs/// but that is because I am not looking in the paper in certain parts of the country.

When I advertised that one litter I did not use a paper. Instead I used several very nice quality internet sites , Dog Fancy and Dog World of course I am on the Breeder site for our National club.   By using these sites I was able to stress the testing, the fact they are whelped in My bedroom and raised in the middle of a home full of kids  . I can also brag that in a 6 gen pedigree only 5 dogs were not champions and they exisited over 30 years ago. I let a potential home know that I am a member in good standing in our National and parent club and that should I not have a puppy I can place with them I am happy to try to help them find a puppy or dog. I do give Rescue's contact information in my ad. Seems contradictory I am sure to many folks . But since I am not trying to make a living off of dogs ( and yes even the thought makes me laugh) I want to get the most use for every cent spent.  What good is testing and championing my breeding stock if I do not let John Q Public know he should be asking for that kind of quality?  I won't even go into hybreds.  Some of the legnth conversations I have had with  peole wanting to buy ine or people wanting me to help creaet one has left permenate frown wrinkles in my forehead!!  

The breakdown that you offered may be correct , I admit I have often thought along very simular lines. The "miracle of birth" one kills me.   It goes hand and hand with the morons who want a "Summer" dog to keep the kids occupied till they go back to school.

Bonita of Bwana