I spoke up....

    • Gold Top Dog

    I spoke up....

    to a guy at the dog park yesterday.  BF and I took our 4 dogs to the park for a short hike.  It was busy of course and we just walked through the park to the woods and trails beyond.  Our dogs know the routine so they ran on ahead through the fence and up the dam.  So did 4 or 5 other dogs though.  Most owners realized their dogs were taking off and called them back.  We paused on the hill to stop our dogs forward progression and allow the owners to recall their dogs then set off again.  At the top we entered the woods and found that we were up one dog.  A medium sized white and brown spaniel type dog.  We paused at the juncture of the trails to see if we heard anyone calling for a dog, but the waterfall was pretty loud.  I can't say that I remember if this dog ran up with us or was already up there, all I know is that he was running along with our dogs.

    So we continue up the trail a few yards and this boy keeps up with us, I checked his collar to see if he had a name, but apparently Sidney was not his name. We paused again at this point to let a worried owner catch up, but no one showed up and we heard no one calling.  In the past, dogs that have followed us, have left us and gone back to find their owners at this point.  This boy stayed with us though even when we tried to ignore him at first. 

    Part of me felt like we should turn back and find his owner but the other part of me was like, well we have to go back that way anyway.  So we continued on our walk.  This is a predetermined hike for us and it doesn't take that long and at about the point where we turn around to head home, we  hear someone calling through the woods.  So we stopped our forward progress again and waited.  We couldn't make out what the person was saying (even when we could see the guy, still couldn't understand the name).  So he catches up to us and calls his dog, who runs to him.  He then proceeds to grab the dog by scruff and muzzle, push to the ground and scold the dog for running off.  

    I couldn't let that go.  I just couldn't.  I walked back up the hill towards him and said something like, "Don't get mad at him.  He came to you when you called." (which he did as soon as he saw his owner) 

    The guy was like he ran off and shouldn't run off. 

    I responded and told him he should always praise his dog for returning to him.   No matter how angry we are, we should always praise them for coming back.

    He tried to ask how do you correct a dog for running off.

    I told him it was his responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen in the first place.  That his dog doesn't know that he's angry for running off 20 minutes ago!  That he only knows that right now, he came back to you and you're angry.  If you're always angry when he returns, then he's going to be less likely to return in the future.

    He said a Vet told him to correct him for it!  Sad

    I said no, you need to teach him a good recall but you can't get angry with him for running off.

    I think the guy was a little put out that I was "scolding" him!  I did tell him that I teach agility to people and their dogs so I know what I'm talking about.  He kept saying "thank you, but.."     He did say he loves the dog very much and would never hurt him.  I said that's great but you shouldn't get angry with him.  He's a great little dog, having fun and stuck with us very nicely without running off and when we heard you calling we stopped to wait for you.  Oh well, maybe he'll think about what I said.  Maybe he won't.

    The dog was a very cute dog, happy, loved chasing our guys around in the woods.   I hope he does think about what I said.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Good for you.  I have the utmost respect for vets, but some of the things I've heard from them regarding training, temperament, nutrition.. are so off the wall I do often feel bad for people that really think they are doing the right thing.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think you handled this situation wonderfully.  If you had a single dog and all day to hang around I guess I would have wanted you to stay near the entry until the owner came up and claimed his dog. But you did have your 4 , were on a schedule and you knew exactly what the walk would entail, so the smaller guy was never in danger.

    Some owners like some parents have some ideas so fixed in thier noggins they won't "hear" great advice no matter how hard you try to explain.  You established your credentials , your pack is obviously well behaved and you really did try to explain a most important point.

    The old notions of punishment as training are depressing.  Kids and dogs rarely respect let alone understand simple dominance or stregnth displays. You can teach them to fear you but that does not teach them why a behavior was wrong or caused a problem. My DH is 67. I love the man to the moon and back but we have strong disagreements on discipline.  Where he would never , under any condition hit a dog to correct it , he was raised believing that spanking was , is and always will be the only way to "fix" an issue with a child.  We have negociated this for 27 years now.  The last 9 years it has been the 5 grandkids we are raising.  About a year ago I finally had enough .  I tried to explain why his theory will not work and of course being stuck in his pattern he refused to listen so I asked him to look me in the eye. He did. I assured him of how much I love him and added IF you ever spank one of the grands again for anything shy them pulling a horribly dangerous stunt ( fires, guns etc ) you can get a lawyer.  I know even the "allowed" events are not going to be truly educated by a spanking , and believe me we are not talking beatings etc, but I felt I had to leave him the concept that there was a line that could not be crossed without his old fashioned reaction being allowed.  Thankfully my grands are really pretty good kids and the chances of them ever getting a spanking again from on eof us is next to nil. The parents are another story and it boggles my mind we were not  big spankers with them either...yet the SNL was raised just like the hubs so the arguement goes on...

    Again I think you did a really good thing taking the time and trying to educate the man on recall and why punishing the dog as he did was so counter productive.

    Bonita of Bwana

    • Gold Top Dog

    At least it sounds like he is possibly open to change.  I think you opened a door for him.

    This hit home because I just got back from our morning hike.  The dogs and I passed by this couple with a heeler looking mix.  The dog had a muzzle on and was barking crazily at my dogs.  The guy proceeded to scream at the dog and get somewhat physical.  Not a chance that I could have suggested anything, as my dogs in his dog's vicinity would not have lent itself to conversation.  Anyway, it left me feeling crappy. I hate to see that.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Good for you for talking to the guy.   At least it seems that he took your words to heart. Sounds like he will think twice the next time the little guy romps. 

    A lot of dog owners think that their vet is the ultimate source.

    Trudy has a habit of jumping on people when they come through the door.  My step daughter's boy friend came to the house and when he came through the door, I heard a yelp and Trudy turned tail and looked at him through my legs.  When I asked him what happened he said that when she jumped on him, he pinched her paws to get her off (Yikes! Even made her yelp!).  I told him that I work hard at making my dogs comfortable with paw handling because I dremel their nails every week and that what he did was a bad thing to do to a dog.  He said that his uncle (who is a vet) taught him to do that and he feels that it works.  Actually if the person Trudy is trying to greet ignores her and fold arms arms and keep walking, she will stop and do a perfect little obedience sit in front until the person is ready to greet her.  He was not so convinced or even contrite.  I told my husband that it sent up a red flag, in my mind, about this young man. 

    • Gold Top Dog

     I think he will think about it more.  Its normal to get defensive when you're told what you've been doing for so long, is wrong.  But once he can calm down, your voice will be in the back of his mind, making sense.  Good for you.

    • Gold Top Dog

    huskymom

     I think he will think about it more.  Its normal to get defensive when you're told what you've been doing for so long, is wrong.  But once he can calm down, your voice will be in the back of his mind, making sense.  Good for you.

     

    I will certainly hope so!  The dog was very sweet and let us pet him to check his tags and I'd hate to see that change.  I was pretty nervous about what I did, but I couldn't let him do that to the poor dog. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Good for you!! Not enough people stand for what they believe in... and hopefully he takes your advice...