Your thoughts on what to charge?

I can't wait to see pics of this Pupper!

As long as you feel you are breaking even and enjoying what you do I think you're in a fantastic place!

Bonita of Bwana

I will force all of you to oooh and ahhh over little Nemo as he and his cousin Kota learn to love each other and try to get away with as much as they can.

Oh how *evil* of you.  Alright...well if you must.....let the torture begin. :o)

PS I think only asking $10 a day is very generous of you and I'm sure Kota's mom will really appreciate your work w/ her babies

I would do $15/day + costs (the costs of any classes, if you take him to them, including handling classes, vet bills, food, etc.) That's fair to both you and them, but it also doesn't make trainers who do this for a livving look like they are price gouging- because they are not. The monthly rates *I* know of for board and train range from $325-650.

Bonita of Bwana

DPU

I would calculate your costs the best you can, add 20% and then double the dollars.  Then I would donate half of the proceeds to a shelter since this puppy is taking the place of a dog you could be fostering and working with. 

The notion that I should donate any money to a shelter because this puppy is taking the place of a dog I could be fostering is kind of odd.

But at what point would it be "okay" with you for me to make "money" ?  I am raising 5 of my grandchildren. 

Odd?  Pretty standard stuff to have a portion of the proceeds go to help the shelter dog.  Its good for business and also reduces your tax liability on the proceeds.  Are you doing this as a business, or a hobby, or just to help supplement your retirement income?

The forumula that I gave you is pretty reasonable.  For service work, having a markup of 140% on actual expenditures is very low and I doubt very much you will reach the $15, $25, or $50/day.  The Petsmart, Pethotel by me charges $13/day for any size dog and that does not include training or behavior modification.  I suspect you don't really know your true direct expenditures or your common perishables.  Identifying the true cost to board the dog is the first step and the add-ons (markup) is what the consumer will bare.   

If it were me sending a dog off (which I don't think I could ever do...) I would *expect* to pay $300-$500 so I think $300 is definitely reasonable, considering you're not "just" a pet-sitter you are a breeder and very experienced with this breed and what he will need! 

DPU

Odd?  Pretty standard stuff to have a portion of the proceeds go to help the shelter dog.  Its good for business and also reduces your tax liability on the proceeds.  Are you doing this as a business, or a hobby, or just to help supplement your retirement income?

The forumula that I gave you is pretty reasonable.  For service work, having a markup of 140% on actual expenditures is very low and I doubt very much you will reach the $15, $25, or $50/day.  The Petsmart, Pethotel by me charges $13/day for any size dog and that does not include training or behavior modification.  I suspect you don't really know your true direct expenditures or your common perishables.  Identifying the true cost to board the dog is the first step and the add-ons (markup) is what the consumer will bare.

Your assumption once again is what I guess I find Odd.  To begin with My request was simple. The family is adamant I be paid for caring for and training thier pup. Rhodesians are not an easy breed for folks unfamiliar with them. This is a couple who want to enjoy the dog but are in the middle of buying and some renovation to an apartment in downtown NYC. 

The amount I mentioned 300.00  covers  15.00 for heart worm tx. 5.00 for flea treatment,  a very costly high end dog food that the breeder of the pup prefers 20.00 a week for the pup at 10 weeks so there is another 80.00 btw the dog food is not available in my area which means a one hour one way trip to pick it up which will average out to about 50.00 a month just driving back and forth as the pet shop which will carry it only gets small 4.5 pound bags and in limited supply . That is half the "fee" in simple perishables.  Add the actual care of a pup being hosebroken, leash trained, crate trained, taught to allow grooming, socialization and the basics for the CGC which is my goal not thiers. and I will be getting  around 5.00 a day . WHOA I am simply dizzy with the concept that I will watch the pup 24 hours a day while training and socialization gee that is almost 20 cents an hour !!  Please , please folks don't let the government know, I am positive this will push me to a wayyyy higher income bracket and since I don't plan on paying taxes on it I would really hate to have to do hard time for tax evasion. By the time the pup has grown a bit and double's his consumption of the prefered feed I guess I will have to forgo getting lunch off the regular menu and stick to the dollar one.

You may have been trying to point out  a simple accounting theory but possibly the attitude that first I would not know my actual expeditures or common perishables was more than just condenscending.  Secondly at no time did I ask how much I could charge ie what will the market bare, but instead I asked about thoughts on what to charge. ...  This is a family that routinally paid upwards of 65 dollars  per day to assure Kota was going to Doggie Day Care  4 times a week Doggie Day Spa 1-2 times a week and has a pair of Dog Walkers to take him out several times a day when Mom is under deadline.  I could easily ask for the same or more IF it would not bother me that we are friends and I will be getting ,in my opinion,... the best of any deal as I will have the sweet puppy breath and fun while he is tiny .... My grandchildren will enjoy a puppy without my having to deal with a litter.   I guess more than anything I found your tone to be patronizing , if it had not amused me so much I would most likely have been in a snit over the attitude.  BTW when I breed I pay a heafty Love Tax for each puppy and my new families are also encouraged to do the same. I fund raise for RESCUE,  and H&G to a level that would very likely be hard for you to understand as a breeder and long time member of both our National Breed Club and the Original Breed Club. We not only support our local shelters but are a significant part of the Underhound Railroad.  In addition my husband and I sponsor a Game Warden in Krueger National Park supplying a salary, equipment , training and a Ridgeback to work the bush in the manner they were originally intended.  May I offer the opinion , that I more than understand and am familiar with every dollar it takes to successfully raise and train a dog to Int. Therapy Standards as well as HIC, ATTS, and then simple old AKC and INT Champions. But hey that may be because aside from being a retired RN from a very skilled and demanding Oncology Center I am married to a Multi Degree Engineer ... simply raising the 5 daughters and now 5 of 10 grandchildren somehow has made details not just important but essential.

I was interested in what the going rate was in other parts of the country for specific services offered to allow me to justify the amount I am willing to agree to.  Had I bred the pup I would have insisted on the same rate as his soon to be companion, just enough to cover the dog's expenses.

Your post seemed to more of a combination instruction and opinion to someone you assumed was either not very bright or greedy. If I misunderstood your tone I am sorry, you know how email is a difficult medium to express one's self in.

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WO HAS OFFERED RATES AND LOCALS TO ENABLE ME TO DRAW UP MY CONTRACT FOR THE  CARE OF THE PUP.

Bonita of Bwana

Bonita of Bwana

Your post seemed to more of a combination instruction and opinion to someone you assumed was either not very bright or greedy. If I misunderstood your tone I am sorry, you know how email is a difficult medium to express one's self in.

You asked what will the market  bare.  I stated what it was at the Petsmart in my area.  You left out the part where you quantitified the dollars for your services.  A big part of determining price.  You seem to let your emotions be a factor in the pricing.  That also has a dollar value that you can quantitfy and be aware of what you are giving up....as you say it can help the grandkids more.  I thought I was helpful because I am an accountant but now frankly I don't want to help any longer.  Good luck to you.

Bonita - just be careful you're not selling yourself so cheaply that the customers will not value what they're getting, if that makes sense? Sometimes people (wealthy people sometimes being the worst offenders) think that anything that is inexpensive is automatically inferior. Make sure that your prices are substantial enough to give you a decent profit margin (you can put it aside in an emergency fund for your own dogs if you feel guilty about it) and reflect the quality of your work/operation. So the people aren't thinking, "Oh, the puppy is just going to spend some time with Bonita" - it's more like sending the puppy off to Bonita is a biiiiig deal - worthy of bragging about! You want to make sure that your prices reinforce the idea that your services are valuable. That is, of course, if you're treating this like a business transaction. If it's more like an arrangement between friends, I don't think it matters as much what you charge. 

When I kennel mine it's for a shorter duration at a "doggie daycare" -- they PLAY with them but don't train.  It's about $18 a day. PER dog (and mine tend to share a larger kennel together -- all 3 dogs in one). 

Frankly I think $500 is a steal.  For all the work you'll do??  Don't underestimate your value.

DPU

Bonita of Bwana

Your post seemed to more of a combination instruction and opinion to someone you assumed was either not very bright or greedy. If I misunderstood your tone I am sorry, you know how email is a difficult medium to express one's self in.

You asked what will the market  bare.  I stated what it was at the Petsmart in my area.  You left out the part where you quantitified the dollars for your services.  A big part of determining price.  You seem to let your emotions be a factor in the pricing.  That also has a dollar value that you can quantitfy and be aware of what you are giving up....as you say it can help the grandkids more.  I thought I was helpful because I am an accountant but now frankly I don't want to help any longer.  Good luck to you.

I'm married to an accoutant type and frankly when I got to DPU's post my thots were "hmm, he's probably right and wow-- an actual FORMULA!!"

I think DPU came from a typical accountant "cost benefit analysis" standpoint (I could recite that phrase in my sleep!!) -- I know him well enough to know he wasn't talking down, he was simply "stating it".  And the man does major rescue and I never *thot* about the fact that if you donate a portion of it to a shelter (because you *do* work with rescue, I'm sure don't you??) it would be a logical write-off (cos you are only ONE person Bonita -- as closely related to Super-Woman as you are, it still costs money to fly that darned Invisible Plane!!!!)

But I didn't realize until I read what you typed later that this was a mega 'friendly' situation.  So I understand your concern as well.  But I agree with Cita -- and granted NONE of us know these folks nor your relationship with them ... but in my "older than dirt" history a mistake *I* make over and over is that in trying to be 'nice' to someone I wind up making what I've done appear less valuable because I've given it too freely. 

That bites in the back-end of it all because what you've done for them has to be valuable enough *to them* for them to make a huge effort to keep up the training you've done.

In particular, the one that would concern me is that you're pretty well trying to 'kid-proof' this dog.  Andddddddddddd what happens down the road if their kids truly aren't as dog-saavy as maybe they should be AND moreover, they may not be at all well supervised.  So if what you've done isn't heeded and valued, it's a step away from "kid-proofing" to some annoying little stinker hurting the dog, it bites and .... well .... "Bonita supposedly trained him for me".

In short - it could all go very wrong really quickly.  You know these people, not me -- I'm just talking out of my *own* history and seeing only too clearly what could go wrong if these folks truly don't take your hard hard work seriously and work equally hard to maintain the behavior as time passes. 

Does that make sense?

Agreed. $500 would be a real bargain. You almost tempt me to send you the next puppy 

jennie_c_d

Agreed. $500 would be a real bargain. You almost tempt me to send you the next puppy 

Shoot, forget puppy, you want my little dingbat? I'd pay $500 for a WEEK if you could get the little bugger to stop going around and biting people!  

calliecritturs

In particular, the one that would concern me is that you're pretty well trying to 'kid-proof' this dog.  Andddddddddddd what happens down the road if their kids truly aren't as dog-saavy as maybe they should be AND moreover, they may not be at all well supervised.  So if what you've done isn't heeded and valued, it's a step away from "kid-proofing" to some annoying little stinker hurting the dog, it bites and .... well .... "Bonita supposedly trained him for me".

I totally understand what you are saying on this issue and could not agree more!! While yes we do everything we can to socialize a pup to be the most bomb proofed dog it can be we also work the other side of the concept.  We stress over and over in our manuals and training classes , in our get togethers and our responses to our families that while we are all striving to achieve a sound dog in both body and mind we need to PROTECT them as well. Any dog terribly stressed or hurt can bite.  Just as it is our job to provide a safe yard, good food, medical care we have not just the right but the responsibility to prevent a dog from having to deal with a poorly trained child, a drunk , a stranger etc.  The first really awful fight the Hubs and I ever had was about a million years ago, one of his co workers was at our home at a post softball victory party.  The crowd was huge, people in the hot tub, the yard all over the house , everyone was having a great time and my RRs were enjoying the attention and fun as well.  I had whipped up a very big finger food spread and the margaritas, wine and beer were enjoyed by all.  Walking from one room to another I spotted our new pup , looking miserable. I went into the room and called her to me , she came to my side but would not engage me. Trying to not  look like a panicky young bride I kept trying to figure out why Kahlua was obviously unhappy. The co worker who had been sitting there when I came in kept chatting in a most friendly manner.  After a very few moments I excused my self to take the girl to the master bedroom to allow me to check on her. Once in I went over her carefully and quickly realized she had a massive wad of PEANUT BUTTER smeared in the top of her mouth !!! I was furious. Going back out I ttried to figure out who could have done such an ignorant thing !!??!! Bob spotted me and came to my side quickly , one look at my face he knew I was ready to kill someone!  The man who had been sitting iin the room with the dogs would not meet my eye but was smirking and thinking himself very clever. I asked him if he had given the pup anything to eat, in my heart I was hoping it was a case of dumb rather than mean!! He grinned and admitted to the "Peanut Butter Gag"..chuckling he began to tell other guests what he had done... Bob kept trying to get me to drop it, he said his plan was to get this guy out of the house w/o embarrassing him !!! Yeah...that didn't happen I tore into him and finished by banning him from EVER setting foot ...if memory serves I question not simply his intelligence but his parentage as well... Bob felt I was wrong for causing a sceane I then lit into Bob. The jerk never got close enough to speak to me again. The pup was fine but I learned a most important lesson. Not everyone is nice or smart, and some people just like to bully others.

From that day on my pets have never been made to deal with people that could be problematic.  I also trained the family to take the same precautions.  At the show two weeks ago our dear friends who adopted 4 special needs siblings parked with us as all of us enjoy eating together and all... The 5 year old boy has become problematic and when he does not get enough attention he pinches and throws things. I kept my hounds away ,, but sure enough he found a way to throw his ball at the dogs and make them uncomfortable ...After he hit my old girl with his 12-15 inch ball I took him aside and infront of his mom promised him a sound spanking if it happened again !! He tried me and I popped him on th behind made him apologize to Jazz then put him in time out another exhibitor stood and stared at me ... the rest of the show how ever he was very careful of my dogs. He has the tendancy to make dogs uncomfortable and I would bet it is only a matter of time before he does get bit, most likely by on eof thier own dogs. we discussed it at legnth There is no such thing as a 100% bomb proofed dog...but mine are darn close and my owners are the best back ups a dog could ever ask for.

calliecritturs

but in my "older than dirt" history a mistake *I* make over and over is that in trying to be 'nice' to someone I wind up making what I've done appear less valuable because I've given it too freely. 

This really made me think as I am very guilty of of this !!  Having given up working out of the home to raise kids and care for the Moms it has been ages since I pulled in a "real" paycheck.  I think that tends to make you forget to value your efforts as you once did. I promise I will think this over carefully and try to find an appropriate fee that I can be comfortable with charging. 

Thank you all for the wonderful advice !!

Bonita of Bwana