Questions about Breed Traits?

You're both right, kinda.

Chows *are*, honestly, a bite risk sometimes. They've got body language that's not quite like other dogs, and can be REALLY hard to read- which makes it hard to predict what they will do. Most groomers I know have had at least one close call with a chow who went rom appaently okay with whatever was being done (nail clipping, combing) to attempting to remove the groomer's arms in under a second. They can be kinda haretriggered. And the massive popularity that the breed went through in the 80s really, really hurt the breed.  Like any breed with a tendency to be guardy, BYB popularity will result in the average 'pet' o that breed moving away from wfhat tfhey ought to be- and in the case of guarding breeds, temperament is usually the first thing to go. Look at GSDs, Dalmatians,Dobes, Shar Pei. (This is actually one of the things I find MOST impressive about pit bulls, btw- that so many o them, despite people TRYING to breed for bad temperafment, are such stable dogs- I suspect that's because they WEREN'T guardy dogs and dog aggression is so separate from human aggression.)

Chow x pits are honestly one of my least-ffafvorite mixes. Both breeds are prone to dog aggression, and with the chow's tendency to be difficulty to read, they can be difficult to manage. Not all of them ae like that, by any means- I've known some nice ones- but it's not like chow x golden or chow x Aussie (both mixes I see a lot out of a particular local shelter, and both mixes that are in general, wonderful- I haven't met a bad one o ither o those yet!) My irst dog was a Chow x Eskie (who looked, oddly enough, like a grossespitz, only with a black tongue.) and she was a doll. (Unfortunaetly, she was severely dysplastic and not a surgical candidate and was put down as a airly young adult once her quality o life went.) Socialization is going to be important, but possibly more important is going to be a realistic assessment o what her dog is and can be. This dog will probably NOT be a dog that does well at the dog park as an adult- he or she might, but probably won't. This dog is probabyl NOT going to be a great sports dog. But this dog probably IS going to be a very loving, devoted family dog with a nice moderate energy level, probably pretty easy to housebreak, and with proper care on her part, WILL be a GREAT pet.

 

Liv

Also is it okay if I direct her here should she need any help/ advice?

EVERYONE is welcome here...send her on sez I!

Liv

 I really want to help this woman succeed with her dog. It does not in my opinion sound like it was a well researched thing and I'm positive it was BYB, so there could be draw backs in the dogs personality due to genetics.

Good for you for helping! Not all of us had great starts our first or even second times around...been there done that can only be of help.

MOST of Chows stand offishness (IMO) is a combination of, them being bred for fur and meat in antiquity (hence not a close positive relationship with man at first, and they sure weren't selecting for temperament!) coupled with the natural guardian temperament (they did serve as guard/watchdogs at times in history as well).

Dogs not bred to be "companions" esp ancient breeds like the Chow (even TM's and Akitas, etc)...often aren't cuddly and love everyone sort of breeds. 'Living with humans' is different than 'being part of the human's lives'. This breed's history went a bit before they transitioned to being family pets...it does show, but it does NOT mean they are untrustworthy or aggro. IMO NO amount of socialization can "make" a Chow into a Lab...but that isn't bad...it just is. Plenty of Chows make GREAT pets and live well with kids, cats, other dogs.

As to the why Chows might have a "rep"? They simply may be harder to "read" due to head type, heavy coats, and innate nature...coupled with the deep set eyes which result in a physical limitation of peripheral vision....this can lead to issues with purebred Chows and small fast moving things like kids or small dogs/animals etc. I was taught to always approach a Chow from the front so as not to startle it...for ex.

That said...this is a mix...and a mix with a dog breed known to LIKE people...most anyone really...if not other animals/dogs. So that is a plus. Training classes...bonding...limits...the same as any other dog/breed/mix would be high on my list.

Tell we're here...you're here...and we can help if she needs it!

Thank you guys for your quick replies!

I kinda knew that Chows were originally bred for food, but I never knew that they had a different body language than most dogs- makes sense considering there background. I can see now how that can be taken as a "no warning" kinda thing before they bite.

I guess I felt the need to help her so bad, because she is due to have a baby in June like me. And I really really don't want this situation to turn bad I guess. Thats honestly the first time I have felt the need to do that, not sure why. But I have learned enough on here and made my own really stupid mistakes to know when to ask for help, and I think that this community would be able to give her an awesome start with her puppy.

I sent her a PM and told her about the board. I'm not as knowledgeable on dogs as most of you so I would rather her take a look around and speak with those more experience than I, and best of all show us her puppy lol.

 
Also, one poster told her to establish her dominance with the dog quickly, is that the same as being a pack leader (positive role I guess). Because I don't know why, but I kinda perceived it as being being an aggressor (I know lots have varying opinions on this- I'm just curious ) ?

Breed traits are important to understand and realize, but they also shouldn't be held to a standard too much. I have heard that statement that *This breed is _______* so many times. Some dogs fit that perfectly, and some don't fit it at all. And those dogs can be of the same breed!

I think it's a double-edged sword, because as much as you need to realize the importance of breeds having been bred for specific purposes, you also need to realize that a) not all dogs will fit that status quo, and b) breed traits are not indicitive of problems.

Mini Schnauzers can be very barky, they are often reserved with strangers at first until they come to trust them, and many aren't fond of playing with other dogs. Then there are those that never bark, love everybody and everything, and are the social butterfly of the dog park. Your typical "best family pet" Golden? The increase in resource guarding in this breed that has been developing as a pattern honestly makes me refrain from making such a claim. Pitty type dogs are known for their dog-aggression tendencies. This should not be ignored, nor should it be a sentence for them to live unhappy lives because there are just as many Pitties that have no dog-aggro issues at all. Cockers have this "known" abilty for Cocker Rage. I don't deny it exists, and am glad that I know about it, but I've never seen it in any Cockers that I have known, and don't treat each Cocker as a ticking time bomb. Chows are no different. Some will have unstable temperaments, and some will have very breed-specific temperaments (which is NOT aggressive!)

What is most important to ME is to look at the dog before my feet, not the books and not the standards. Understand the standards and what literature says, but for relevant information, the creature that lays beside you is what you need to worry about, and what you (and the owner) should focus on. If the owner begins to worry that the dog will somehow inevitably end up aggressive, they might as well return the dog now, because they will live such a stressed life and the dog will be stressed because of it as well, it's almost pointless to try. But if they go in truly educated, knowing how to give this dog the best chance it has, doing all the right things, then everything is working in her favor. I try not to make generalized judgements based upon what I know, although for someone in my position I know it's also important to understand and realize these patterns and potential issues.

With that I've worked with one Chow mix. He was a friendly guy, played well, was a little iffy being groomed. Didn't bite, but didn't enjoy it and it's a dog that I would say had the ability to bite if pushed during grooming. So with him other than in grooming, he was a very great guy. For grooming, he had some issues. Doesn't make him an "anything" dog, and to label him because of a specific problem would only hurt himself. It's often things like that that can turn into rumors of generalized aggression, or something similar.

I can't address this specifically since I don't know much about Chows (though my Coke is part Chow).  However, I always say that breed traits may explain things but do not excuse things. 

For example, I have a German Shepherd from working lines and old show lines (herding lines) and often when playing with other dogs she exhibits very "herdy" behavior.  It makes sense to me, but it can be a little off-putting for people to see and sometimes annoys the other dogs.  Therefore, she is not excused in doing this just because she is a herding dog.  I watch her carefully and I know when to call her and have her back off for a while.  I understand *why* she does it, but that doesn't make it OK all the time.  It's my responsibility to find appropriate ways of utilizing her drives and her breeding.

My problem with people claiming "breed traits!" is that so often it's not really a breed trait, but simply a dog being reactive.  Again, take German Shepherds for example.  Yes, they are supposed to be loyal, velcro dogs that are aloof towards strangers, however their standard also calls for solid nerves and stable temperament.  The dog should also be biddable and take direction from it's handler.  Therefore, a German Shepherd that is aggressive towards people coming onto it's property is not, IMO "doing its job because it's a GSD", it's simply a reactive dog that has weak nerves (b/c I think a lot of aggression stems from being fearful and/or insecure) and lacks proper training and socialization. A very poor example of the breed.

 I don't know if aggression is necessarily a breed trait, but I think a certain amount of fearlessness or ability to continue in the face of pain (stoicism?) might be and that could make it more difficult to manage a particular breed of dog.  Before I got my Airedale, the breeder was very careful to make sure I understood about terriers and that I knew what I needed to to make sure he understood who was in charge.  I think some are more prone to try to take over with a weak or unsure owner.  As far as tendency to bite goes, I think traditionally the smaller breeds have higher bite incidences.  It's just that one bite from a big dog can do more damage than one from a small dog.  I also think small dogs tend to bite and release but some breeds traditionally bite and hold.

FWIW, I've never met a nice Chow.  It might be the owner's fault, but of the 5-6 I've met, they've all had to be locked up or physically restrained from going after strangers completely unprovoked.  I'm more afraid of them than the pits at the shelter! 

Some baiting dogs were bred with the tenacity to hold a bite. But a breed is not specifically prone to bite. The number of bites on record, at least for a while, was higher for Siberian Huskies and Labs. The former because people don't realize Sibes ar aloof and have to meet you on their terms and labs because they are a popular breed, even among people who don't spend much time training to avoid problem situations. Also, especially with hap-hazard breeding, some temperment issues could be based in genetic shortfall or medical problems that are expressed through "aggression"-like behavior.

it's very important to consider breed traits before you decide what dog to get. Once you've got the dog, it doesn't matter. All dogs need socialization and training and each dog is an individual. You might want to suggest your friend take the dog to an obedience class NOW before the baby arrives. And might want to make a gift of two books to her: The culture clash, and Mine! both by Jean Donaldson.

Kim_MacMillan

Your typical "best family pet" Golden? The increase in resource guarding in this breed that has been developing as a pattern honestly makes me refrain from making such a claim.

Slightly OT but still amazing me: I have taken Eko to the dog park twice. (I keep an eagle eye on things and am prepared to leave if I don't like the scene). There have been a total of 3 goldens at the park during our visits, and ALL THREE had no business being at a dog park. They were overly growly and aggressive towards the other dogs. One even threatened a person, who calmly told it to get off his puppy after the golden had slammed it to the ground and was terrorizing it. I told the golden owner he needed to leave, and he did. But whoa! Three out of three creepy goldens.   Breeding around here must be dismal.

mudpuppy

it's very important to consider breed traits before you decide what dog to get. Once you've got the dog, it doesn't matter. All dogs need socialization and training and each dog is an individual. You might want to suggest your friend take the dog to an obedience class NOW before the baby arrives. And might want to make a gift of two books to her: The culture clash, and Mine! both by Jean Donaldson.

 Thanks everyone for enlightening me on a topic I am very unfamiliar with. There is alot I didn't know or fully understand.

 
I don't know this lady in RL or online very well, but I will let her know of your suggestions