Where I've been. LGD stories

    • Gold Top Dog

    Where I've been. LGD stories

     For the last few hours... what you mean nobody missed me?Surprise

    I have become increasingly curious about the workings of LGD's.  Ratsicles late's thread has really got me wondering.  And so I went looking for some information on the practice of training a good Guardian Dog.  Like everything else I think I know about, it turns out I really know zilch.  I stumbled upon some posts by a guy named Robert Delinger and thought I would post the link here.  Its a great read and a wonderful insight to raising these great beasts to do what they are meant to do.  He has a style similar to the book Stories From Wingfield Farm that I read when I was in College.  I've been sneaking back to the computer to read another page every couple minutes in between trying to get some housework done...I really am trying, I swear!  So anyway, here they are for anyone that wants to take a look.

    The Daemon Sisters 

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    I have a HUGE soft spot for LGD's and as soon as I can feasibly pull it off, I plan to own a Maremma sheepdog.  LGD's completely fascinate me.  I'll read that linky another time, when I am not about to cook dinner.  :)

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    its interesting so far :D i dont know much about LGDs and flock guardian tecniques but i see the first mistake he made was getting two puppies... they bonded to each other instead of the flock. but he learned by trial and error!

    this guy should mold this website into an actual book!!!  

    • Gold Top Dog

    Oh Keep reading... Both dogs and the subsequent ones turn out pretty well... some of the stories are kinda funny.  I think it has been suggested that he write a book.  He kind of poopoos the idea saying he can't write in later posts. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks for posting that, it really is an interesting read.

     And I wish more people would read it, because I've noticed that even on this forum, which is full of knowledgeable dog owners, most people seem to really have no clue about what LGD's are, what they do, how they do it, and their owner's role in them doing their job.

    Before I decided to get Chief, I had been researching LGD'S for a while, even before we bought our farm. When I decided to get Chief, we only had one goat, and I wasn't going to get a dog to guard one goat....but then we started losing chickens. And ducks. And guineas. And rabbits. And then I had to chase a coyote away from that one goat I had. Over the course of about a month, I lost 8 chickens, both of my ducks, all of my guineas, 3 rabbits, and my goat was being terrorized pretty much every night if not by coyotes, then by stray dogs.

    That was what made the decision for me. I knew that pretty soon I was going to have no animals left.

    I decided on a Pyrenees, mostly because they seemed to be what most people around here used to guard their goats. If I had had a real choice I *probably* would have gone for an Anatolian just because they have shorter coats, but I wasn't too picky, I just wanted a good dog that would keep my animals from getting carried off.

    I honestly didn't expect to find one so quickly. I was just talking about it with the owner of the feed store I shop at and he pointed to the bulletin board behind us and said "so and so over there just listed some Pyrenees puppies the other day, you 'ought to get his number."

    So I called, and we talked, and I decided to go look at their puppies. Chiefs parents were not registered, and they certainly were nowhere close to the breed standard for a showable Pyrenees. In fact, they'd have been laughed out of the show ring. The breeders weren't perfect. They were major redneck farmers who raised goats and cattle and had the male/female pair to guard them, and when they had puppies they sold the puppies. Not perfect by any means. But both of the parents WERE damn good working dogs, and their breeders had at least had the sense to get their hips, eyes, and elbows certified, which is more than most of the farmers around here would have done.

    After talking to his breeder for a while and watching Chief's AWESOME parents (who had absolute perfect temperaments for their job, had absolutely nothing to do with us, stayed between us and their goats and cows, and told us in no uncertain terms that they would kick our butts if we even took another sideways glance at those goats) we decided to get one. The owners said that they should all be good working dogs, but they helped us pick the "best" one...Chief. All of the puppies had been raised in the barn from day one with the goats- they had built a welping pen for the mom where the goats go in to sleep every night, so the puppies could see and interact with the goats through the wire as they grew. I watched them for a while, and most of the puppies seemed more interested in each other than the goats...except for Chief. He was playing with a goat kid through the wire. Kid would butt, Chief would paw and lick and bark, they'd both get all excited, and then they'd do it again. He never payed any attention to the other puppies, and he only had a passing interest in us which went away when he realized we didn't have any food. He just wanted to chill with the goats. We decided he was perfect.

    They released him much too young- 5 weeks- but honestly, in my humble opinion, I think it has made him a better working dog. Most LGDs aren't started around livestock until they're 9-10 weeks. And most Pyrenees are basically huge screw ups that don't start working until they're a couple of years old, from what I've read. They don't guard, they chase and chew on the stock, they hurt kids, they kill chickens, they refuse to stay with the stock...all for a few years until they decide to settle down.

    I don't know if Chief is some kind of wonder dog, or if it's because he was started with the goats as early as he was...but Chief is almost 6 months old and he doesn't do any of that stupid puppy stuff. Oh sure he has his moments-  when he was around 3 months he went on a streak of terror and killed a chicken and a rabbit- but after we made it clear that he was never, ever, EVER to touch a chicken or a rabbit again, he stopped. He'll chase them away if they get on his nerves, but he's careful never to hurt one.

    And there are times when he DOES decide not to guard- for the most part he flips out if something is wrong with one of his goats, but every once in a while he just rebels and decides that whatever he's doing is more interesting than guarding. Last week he let something carry off one of my hens. But that's the beauty of a dog that is bonded to the goats, but likes his people TOO- he wants praise from me. Badly. And if I go outside, and he's not with his goats, or a goat acts upset and he doesn't respond, he gets ignored- and that CRUSHES him. The only praise and aknowledgement he ever gets from me is when he is directly doing something with his goats. If he's decided to follow me around while I'm doing chores outside, I ignore him. As soon as he realizes I'm not interesting and decides to wander back to his goats, he gets ALL the praise in the world. If I see one of the goats get upset about something, and he goes running and barking to see what's up, he gets praise. If he barks and snarls at a stranger or a stray dog, he gets praise. If he not doing those things, he gets nothing. I also don't free feed him, like most LGD owners do- he gets meals just like my pet dogs. And until he is with his goats, he doesn't get fed. If I'm about to feed him, and he wanders off from the goats, I wait. He doesn't get fed until he is with the goats. He knows this. There have been occasions where he's missed a meal, because he was being too much of a rebellious puppy to do what he knew he knew he was supposed to do. That's just how it is- if he isn't doing his job, he doesn't exist to me. That's been enough of an incentive to keep him in line and on task, for the most part.

    So I really don't know- I just haven't had the problems that most LGD owners have with their Pyrenees puppies. I don't know if Chief is just amazing, or if I'm doing something special that I'm not aware of- but at not quite 6 months old, Chief does a damn good job. He doesn't hurt small animals, he doesn't hurt the goats when he plays (mostly because my mean old nanny goat comes and kicks his butt when she sees him getting too rough with one of the other goats) he guards against strangers and wild animals and strays...except for very occasional brain farts, he's already a very effective LGD. From everything I've read, he should be screwing up constantly and not even start working for a long while. So, I dunno. All I know is, Chief is awesome and I am SO glad I have him.

     Right now, we're trying to decide if we need to get another Pyrenees in a year or so to be his partner. He can't be everywhere at once, and it would help him a lot if there was another dog to patrol with him. Pyrenees are supposed to work in pairs anyway. But then again, we'll probably never have more than 15 goats at once, and we do only have 7.something acres, so we're not really sure if it's worth it to have 2 dogs. We haven't made the decision yet, so I dunno.

    But like I said earlier- yeah, there seems to be a HUGE lack of knowledge and alot of misconceptions about LGDs even on this forum, and I'd love to get a discussion going about them and answer questions and clear some things up. Hopefully this thread will pick up some. Smile

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    Thanks for the response Brit.  It has been your posts that have made me so curious lately.

    Soooo... have you read the whole thing yet?  As with any good book I read, I've drastically slowed down towards the last few posts.  I was shocked about Pella.  Since it doesn't really mention the event in any threads.  I had to go to the website to find out for sure.

    Questions... What is a BWD?  Is it really a Big White Dog?  Seems silly to me... is it just lingo?

     What are Coppinger's signs?  Any idea?

    The parts with the PMs(passing motorists) really made me think of you.  Do you belong to any LGD boards?  Have they been able to help you out with liability questions?

    I've never wanted to own a sheep... ever.  Suddenly I want a whole farm of them...Confused