Another Question

    • Gold Top Dog

    Another Question

    This is a less "heated" subject as to speak. Any of you that breeds your dogs, and deals with another breeder's dog, how do you establish that? I mean do you leave your dog with them, somewhere else or their's with you?
    • Gold Top Dog
    What kind of dog do you have and what's the dogs history?  I have noticed you have been very helpful in referencing breeder sites for those looking for dogs.  Are you a breeder, thinking of breeding, or just interested?
    • Gold Top Dog
    There are many variations based on mainly..local or distant.
     
    If you are using a stud that is far away obviously your bitch will have to be flown or driven...and will likely be gone for a bit while the breedings take place.
     
    If the stud is local you may drive up and home again the same day.
     
    Some studs being campaigned o the road a lot simply meet up with bitch owners when in their state or near it when the timing's right....but not all handlers like to handle breedings.
     
    If the semen is being shipped you may never have bitch and stud in the same room or even state...lol.
     
    For my breedings, three in all...2 were local (bitches stayed with the stud owner for a few days) and one was my own dog. That's the way I prefer it. But if the best dog for my girl was distant then you do what you have to do!
    • Gold Top Dog
    DPU-I am not a breeder. I would like to breed our girl one day but not any time soon. She is a Saint Bernard and her picture is in the introduction I posted. She has a good history and her bones are in good shape (I was worried about her bone growth b/c her mother was very skinny). I am mainly just interested but could use the infomation for later years.
    Rwbeagles-"If the semen is being shipped you may never have bitch and stud in the same room or even state...lol. " That sounds the best for me or having the stud next door so she can come back home that night. I have a problem with thinking about breeding b/c we are very attached to our dog to let her stay at another persons home.I hope this does not sound crazy! lol. As I said though it wouldn't be any time soon.
    --It seems like someone would make a place where dog breeders can meet up and have their dogs stay where the operation can have a kennel like area with toys food and beds for the breeding dogs. They could keep records and papers on the dogs and refer to other breeders or interested buyers. I would feel more safe if there was a place like that to leave her at.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I would feel more safe if there was a place like that to leave her at
     
    Well there is nothing "safe" about breeding...any of it. You have to know going in...and be okay with the the idea that because you bred her...your bitch could potentially lose her life.
     
    I know personally 3-4 people (from a pool of say 50) that I talk with often....that have lost bitches during sections, or shortly therafter. It's heartbreaking on 2 counts because you lose your bitch...who means so much...and you have motherless puppies you must then scramble to feed and raise. Saints are not always easy whelpers and that's honest.
     
    The pups may live or may die...during birth or shortly therafter...from things like congenital defects, mother squishing them, getting stuck in the birth canal, chilling, canine herpesvirus, infected milk, etc etc etc.
     
    The pups that live may exhibit some debilitating disease as older pups or adults that is YOUR fault because you bred the litter, regardless of the tests you do beforehand. Bottom line, BUT FOR your actions in breeding the dam...these puppies would not be suffering.
     
    There is nothing safe about breeding...the logistics of the breeding itself are the LEAST of your worries to be honest. The best stud for your bitch is the best stud...no matter where he is...or what he costs...YOUR responsibility is to the breed firstly..and your bitch secondly. IF you take on the great burden of responsible dog breeding then distance, convenience, and money must become LOW on the list of priorities.
     
    BTW...a place full of studs and bitches in season would be a MADHOUSE...not to mention a breeding place for contagious disease. No thanks.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I was talking about a safe place to leave her where I would be leaving her at someone elses home. I know all the complications thereafter. With all due respect, if my vet thinks she's at risk I am not breeding her. The place would have no diseases if it was operated correctly. Any time a group of dogs come together at a park, vet, or dog show there is a risk of disease.
    • Gold Top Dog
    if my vet thinks she's at risk I am not breeding her
     
    The vet is not able to tell you your bitch will have no problems whelping or raising her litter, because they CANNOT know that. No one can...until it happens. That is what I am saying.
     
    Any vet that tries to guarantee anything as far as safe easy whelping, is probably selling seaside property in Montana on the side as well. You need to be talking with people in your breed about whelping and your bitches line as far as that goes to get the best picture about what may or may not be likely to happen...they usually know more than the average, non repro specialist vet.
     
    Most people with reputable breeding programmes that entertain bitches have kennels or secure areas to keep them. It's part and parcel for them to ensure your bitch is not bred by any other dog, nor exposed to any risks. That is, reputable folks..not those with a "nice boy" they breed now and again because "he's so cute", etc.
    • Gold Top Dog
    thank you for your relpys.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wouldn't breed to any stud whose owner I didn't trust enough to leave my bitch for a few days. If they don't have their act together enough to keep my bitch safe, how do I trust them enough to know that they have their ducks in a row when it comes to their records on the health and training history of the stud?

    If it's a good stud and they didn't have formal arrangements for visiting bitches for some reason, I'd go spend the three days or so there with my bitch - this happens quite often in BCs, where good outcrosses are well worth a drive and a hotel bill. Often it happens, however, that a particular sire will be used at a trial, if the timing is right. One of the reasons good BC bitches often have only one or two litters in a lifetime, is the issue of timing with trials. Trials only happen on weekends but those ovaries don't seem to consult the calendar for some reason!

    On the other hand, some of the health of the breed is probably attributable to these spur-of-the-moment liasions, which mix up the gene pool quite a bit and keep the inbreeding coefficient very low in BCs, overall. Trials allow you to see dogs that have the same characteristics as the dog you were planning to use (LOL) - and this often works very well, since the inheritance of performance characteristics seems to depend most on the immediate ancestors.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Very interesting brookcove... I would not be a breeder and won't breed her for a long time. It would be one litter..b/c puppies are alot of work and 13 little beethovens may be a little tricky[;)
    • Gold Top Dog
    If you have "just one litter", then you ARE a breeder. With all the lifetime responsibility and duty to the breed, that entails.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Really? Oh my bad. I figured a breeder was a person who breeds their dog every year and has several dogs to breed.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just curious, and because I know this will be brought up, why are you breeding her?
    • Gold Top Dog
    A breeder is anyone who puts male and female together to purposely make puppies. That's the basic....the following is simply my personal feeling:
     
    A Backyard breeder, is someone who does it not because they are thinking of the breed...either preservation or improvement...but only of their dogs in particular 'Fluffy is so cute she'd make great puppies', 'All our friends want one of Fluffy's puppies', 'Our Fluffy is a perfect XXX even tho she's never been shown or herded sheep or done whatever the breed was bred to do', 'I want to have a puppy of hers to keep...I'll sell the rest and make some $$$', 'Fluffy needs one litter to feel complete as a dog',....there are more...but that is about it. May or may not do health tests...often uses a simple health check by a vet as the basis for "healthy enough to breed". May or may not do it often, and sometimes only once. Often has only one dog or two that they breed over and over. Usually the pedigree's are mediocre to poor, title wise...because they got their dogs from another BYB. Their knowledge of their breed is usually limited to what they've been told or read....not usually fluent in pedigree speak or up on what's currently going on with health or genetics issues. May not know more about temperament or health that what they know of their own dog.
     
    A Commercial breeder keeps and breeds large numbers of dogs for money, it is their profession and main means of income. Usually have an outdoor kennel area and licensed by USDA. Various amounts of health testing from none (most common) to cursory. Pedigrees are pretty much empty of titles (until you get back a ways), as the dogs seldom leave the property. Frequent litters every year...puppy mills are an outgrowth of this, IMO.
     
    A reputable breeder....is one that has a breed or a few breeds they exhibit and title in whatever venue they find most satisfying. They pay attention to genetic health and temperament, place puppies on limited reg, offer guarantees and back them up, they do proper health certifications, limit breedings on bitches to what is fair on the bitch, they do not place puppies with whoever has the money, but conduct thorough screening, they are connected with others in their breed and share a common goal of improving or preserving it, or both...and do a breeding with a specific goal in mind. They often are members of their breeds club or some club that partake in whatever dog thing they enjoy...they support either by effort, money, or time...their breeds rescue. The educate...they do not simply sell puppies. They hold their breed in high regard and have extreme knowledge of it's history, use, health issues, and tendencies. they do not experiment with their dogs as in "lets put this breed with that one, and see what happens, I'm curious, it might be cute".
    • Gold Top Dog
    If I were to buy a dog from a breeder, I'd actually stay away from someone who bred a dog every year and who had enough dogs that it would qualify as "several".
     
    I know there are reputible breeders who have more than a couple dogs and keep them in a kennel facility, but that wouldn't be my preference for a breeder. Temperment would be a big part of my choice of dog and I just am not sure that someone who doesn't keep their dogs in their house would be as good a judge of temperment as I'd be looking for.