why i didn't buy from a "reputable" breeder

laurelin, this is one of my favorite quotes:
 
 We must recognize that first of all, a dog is a dog, species Canis familiaris, and that is his true identity. He is a dog first, before he is a Siberian Husky or a Foxhound or a Doberman; breed identity is subordinate to species identity. We must stop treating breeds as if they were species, abandon the rigidity and narrow typological thinking which has heretofore characterized the canine fancy. We must recognize that dogs are unique individuals and that there is no positive value in trying to create groups of dogs which are all clones or photocopies of a type specimen represented by a breed standard.
 
people here are very focused on breed...i'm not.

No I am not about to go back through the entire 11 pages and find the link.

 
here it is:
 
[linkhttp://www.canine-genetics.com]www.canine-genetics.com[/link]
 
look at first article of jeffrey bragg...that's all i want from people...not to agree with it...not to agree with MY conclusions from it...just to know that these ideas are out there...
 
if there are breeders already taking these recommendations, great.

This is not exactly something new and exciting.  These ideas have been out there in the horse world for some time....

ORIGINAL: faramir

laurelin, this is one of my favorite quotes:

We must recognize that first of all, a dog is a dog, species Canis familiaris, and that is his true identity. He is a dog first, before he is a Siberian Husky or a Foxhound or a Doberman; breed identity is subordinate to species identity. We must stop treating breeds as if they were species, abandon the rigidity and narrow typological thinking which has heretofore characterized the canine fancy. We must recognize that dogs are unique individuals and that there is no positive value in trying to create groups of dogs which are all clones or photocopies of a type specimen represented by a breed standard.

people here are very focused on breed...i'm not.

I understand that you aren't focused on breeds, and I'm fine with that.  I do love my breed though, and I wish you'd understand why.  It's something I can't explain really to you, though.  I love dogs, all kinds of dogs.  I'm the person that would take any dog over no dog.  I'd hope you wouldn't hold it against a dog that he was purebred.

I personally do not care what a person breeds as long as it's done responsibly.  I think don't think a dog is better than enother or a type of dog is better, it's just what I prefer.  I would have no problem with a breeder who crossbred dogs if they would do so responsibly, but the sad truth is that's not what happens.  That's why I have a problem with the type of breeder you talked about in your first post.   If a breeder bred a purebred or bred a crossbred irresponsibly and for purely profit (which is what happens all the time when a breed or a cross becomes more popular) then I will not support them.  It has nothing to do with breed.

He's not "focused on breeds" but yet he chose a Goldendoodle based on the combination of traits of the Golden Retriever and the Poodle. Um, yeah. I'd find that statement more believable if he adopted a random mutt from the shelter. [8|]

Joel, I made perfectly valid points which you ignored. No one is saying that purebred ought to be inbred with no crossing over to other lines and you're the only one trying to justify crossing two totally unrelated breeds, your article doesn't even support it. You mention there are other articles which do. Well, if you were trying to make a point, you should've used on of them.

Just FYI-
 
I believe Joel has "left the building" again and wont be comming back.

Just as well. Talking to him is like talking to a wall either way.

I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about breeding, but I'd kind of like to jump in and explain why I think so many people mistakenly believe that mutts are overall healthier than pure breds, since I grew up with the same idea.  When I was a kid (and as an adult) all the dogs I had were mutts.  I knew people with purebreds who were always sick with something and who died young. Remember, veterinary care in the 60s was not what it is today. A friend recently lost a 13 year old rat terrier who, for all of her 13 years, was on meds for seizures, kidney problems, heart problems etc.  You name it - this dog had it. What we didn't realize years ago was the difference between getting a dog from a breeder and choosing one in the pet store window. Nobody ever heard of a BYB or a puppy mill - and that's exactly where all those pure breds came from. The mutts all came from accidental breedings between other mutts. As family pets, they were treated much better than the "pet store" dogs. I think that situation is what gave rise to the "pure breds are sickly but mutts are healthy" beliefs.

Joyce

I hate the myth about crossbreeds being healthier. I remember when Tojo was 8 weeks old, we took him to family dinner at the in-laws and someone gave him a whole plate of maceroni. Of course he threw up, he was only 7 pounds at the time! So my brother-in-law said, "Yeah, that's purebreds for ya," and still maintains he threw up because he's a purebred. [8|]

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_dogs_mom

I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about breeding, but I'd kind of like to jump in and explain why I think so many people mistakenly believe that mutts are overall healthier than pure breds, since I grew up with the same idea.  When I was a kid (and as an adult) all the dogs I had were mutts.  I knew people with purebreds who were always sick with something and who died young. Remember, veterinary care in the 60s was not what it is today. A friend recently lost a 13 year old rat terrier who, for all of her 13 years, was on meds for seizures, kidney problems, heart problems etc.  You name it - this dog had it. What we didn't realize years ago was the difference between getting a dog from a breeder and choosing one in the pet store window. Nobody ever heard of a BYB or a puppy mill - and that's exactly where all those pure breds came from. The mutts all came from accidental breedings between other mutts. As family pets, they were treated much better than the "pet store" dogs. I think that situation is what gave rise to the "pure breds are sickly but mutts are healthy" beliefs.

Joyce

 
One of the worst cases of hip dysplasia I've ever seen was in a dear mutt named Ralph.  He was a three way mix--half rot, a quarter shepard and a quarter timber wolf......

ORIGINAL: sillysally
He was a three way mix--half rot, a quarter shepard and a quarter timber wolf......

 
That must have been an interesting doggy party.  []

[linkhttp://www.fiu.edu/%7Emilesk/Genetics.htm]http://www.fiu.edu/%7Emilesk/Genetics.htm[/link]

Above is the basic idea of mtDNA. How did I find it? Google, where you can find more sources on genetics and in greater depth than just the one site you linked. Much of the info comes from Robert K. Wayne of UCLA and his groundbreaking work in the 90's.

[linkhttp://www.cbclickbank.com/bioinformatics/glossary.htm]http://www.cbclickbank.com/bioinformatics/glossary.htm[/link]

Check out the section on PCR. That's it in a nutshell but you could research a more in-depth discussion on how more than one gene combines to affect another trait. It's actually fairly basic genetic understanding these days.

That is, the one site you've link has little actual genetic information on it.

As for mtDNA reducing to a single line after generations of close-sanguinity breeding, that's also an established fact, even in humans. Health problems in one line is not a reason to quit line-breeding nor is it justification to cross different breeds. While I understand the reasoning behind have a wide gene pool, each time you expand the gene pool, you also introduce new defects. Or combinations of genes that may produce a defect not found in either of the parent breeds. Shadow is a mix of Siberian Husky and Lab. Lab ears flop down. Sibe ears are held up. Shadow's ears flop down but he can hold either one or both up. Sometimes, though, when he's really excited, one ear will cramp and will pull his scalp in that direction, irritating him and he will shake his head to make it loosen. If I can, I will massage it to make it go away. I'm not aware of that cramping problem in either parent breed. So, has this cross produce a an effect of two genes that, together, produce this ability for the muscle to cramp like that?

You said you would be willing to discuss any of the articles posted in the link you posted. As I have noted, they are lacking in some basic facts on genetics, so how we can have a currently topical discussion without more of the facts?