Dog Community

Completely Baffled. Dog Poop

Posted : 6/27/2006 8:26:46 AM

I've posted a number of times about our new dog, Thatcher. In my last post I mentioned that we took him to an animal behaviorist and he was diagnosed w/ an anxiety disorder. He's temporarily on meds to relieve his anxiety so that we can work w/ him and train him. So far, so good. But the pooping issue is STILL stumping up. We've been working on this since March, people. We take one step forward and two steps back. The issue keeps changing.

For alittle backstory, here's what the animal behaviorist recommended we do about Thatcher and his pooping in the house problem. For starter's, we have managed to figure out the times of day when Thatch has to poop. First thing in the morning and in the early evening around 6 pm. He ALWAYS poops at those times. Always, always, always.

The behaviorist instructed us to do the following:

When the time of day when he should poop rolls around, take him out on his leash. Give him a reasonable amount of time to go. If he doesn't, bring he back in his house and put him straight into his crate. Don't talk to him. Don't look at him. Don't give him ANY attention. Then, wait. Wait as long as we feel comfortable, whether it be 30 minutes to an hour. Then, bring him out again. The behaviorist said he doesn't care if Thatcher spends 4 hours in his crate. If he doesn't go outside, he doesn't get free reign of the house. Period.

So, we started doing that. And we've had success. We rarely have to put him into his crate for not going outside at those general times of the day. However, now we've got a new problem. One that's developed in the past few weeks and doesn't happen consistently...rather, periodically. Take this morning for example.

My husband wakes up and brings the dogs outside. Thatcher poops with no problems. My husband waits a few minutes just to make sure he's done and then brings him back in the house. Now, Thatcher doesn't have full run of the house yet. He's only allowed in our kitchen and living room. We only allow him in other rooms under our supervision.

So my husband has just come in with Thatcher. I'm getting ready for work in the bathroom. My husband is making our lunches in the kitchen. And then, I hear it. My husband saying, "No, no, no Thatcher!"

Thatcher pooped again. In the house.

Hubby puts him on a leash and takes him outside. But, of course, Thatcher has now pooped twice in 30-40 minutes. He's not going to have to go again. Hubby brings him back inside, looks at me and says, "So, what do I do with him? Does he go in his crate since he didn't go outside just now?" Well, I don't know. I mean, he did poop outside. But he pooped in the house too. In the crate or not in the crate?

We ultimately decided not in the crate but this issue is stumping us BIG TIME. He doesn't do it all the time. But at least 1-2 times a week, he'll successfully go outside, we bring him in and within minutes he squats and poops again.

And people, we're not taking him out for no two minutes. We stand there and wait and make sure he's done before we bring him back in the house.

I am completely stumped at this point. I've had dogs my entire life and have NEVER had an issue like this one. Thoughts?

Firestorm

Posted : 6/27/2006 8:39:23 AM

Do you free feed or do you have set meal times?

glenmar

Posted : 6/27/2006 8:42:15 AM

See, I don't agree with not talking to him. If he were my dog I'd be telling him "Thatcher, you've gotta go POTTY when we go OUTSIDE" both before we went out and after we came in with no success. For inside mistakes, "unh uh...did you forget we go POTTY OUTSIDE?" and I'd pick the pile up, take it and him outside and tell him "THIS is where we go POTTY. OUTSIDE" and that'd be it.

I don't know how old Thatcher is, but sometimes the younger ones don't know that they HAVE more that needs to be expelled until suddenly, well, it needs to be expelled. Does he have anyway of TELLING you that he needs to go outside? Some folks swear by the bell system.....

mudpuppy

Posted : 6/27/2006 8:57:29 AM

But at least 1-2 times a week, he'll successfully go outside, we bring him in and within minutes he squats and poops again.

Maybe you should just stay outside a little longer. Do the first poop, reward by a few minutes of a fun game of some time, and hopefully if he needs to go again he'll do so.

labcrab

Posted : 6/27/2006 9:20:25 AM

And people, we're not taking him out for no two minutes. We stand there and wait and make sure he's done before we bring him back in the house.

It sounds like you wait until you *think* he's done, but not until you've *made sure* he's done! I think you simply need to stay out longer. Also, does he get a big reward for going outside? Like, a big enough reward that he will choose outside every time? I agree with Mudpuppy - stay out longer, incorporate some play time (exercise will increase the urge to do #2) and just continue to be patient. Some dogs take a long time to really get the whole "outdoor only" idea. Others, take a long time to understand and control the urge to go. Slick took a long time too, until I started using the Clicker and high value treats. Oh, another thing - after he poops, do you take him inside? Sometimes they'll intentionally hold it in because they have been taught that the walk ends as soon as they go. Maybe try not making the whole thing about pooping. Go for a nice long walk, or jog. Play fetch or tug, or whatever he likes and throw a PARTY when he does poop. That's what worked with my boy! Good Luck!

mudpuppy

Posted : 6/27/2006 11:29:33 AM

yeah. I think a lot of people accidently teach their dogs that "potty means end of outside fun, back in the house to be bored". And a lot of people have rather unrealistic expectations about young dogs ability to control their body. Ask yourself how you'd manage if you were ONLY given ten minutes each morning to poop. Could you get your body to cooperate?

Lynn Neild

Posted : 6/27/2006 8:19:55 PM

Ok, so, to answer the questions.

Rewards for pooping outside. Well, first there's the party...

GO POOP OUTSIDE! GOOD BOY GO POOP OUTSIDE! GOOD, GO POOP! GO, GOOD POOP!

Followed by a treat.

Followed by at least 10 minutes of time playing fetch and playing in the yard with TONS of affection.

We haven't been saying anything when he messes in the house 'cause the behaviorist told us not to. He said "Nothing in life is free." The dog has an anxiety disorder. You scold him in a harsh tone and he immediately goes on paranoid watch. Also, ignore him when he does bad stuff. ONLY give him attention when he does things you want him to do. So, that's what we've been doing.

We do, however, pick up the poop, put Thatch on a leash, take him outside, and put the poop on the ground to show him where we want it to go.

If he doesn't poop outside, we run him in the neighborhood hoping to "loosen things up." Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Tried the "matchstick method" that someone suggested on here once. Nothing happened. Did the matchstick and waited outside w/ him for 20 minutes. Nothin'.

We accept the fact that sometimes he just doesn't have to go. But the problem is, he doesn't give any semblance of a sign when he HAS to go. Our other dog? She'll pace, or walk by the door a couple times, or stare us down, or paw at the door, or whatever. Thatch will just get up (from laying down) take a few steps and squat.

For the most part things HAVE gotten better. But he's trained us to be vigilant and take him out VERY consistently. Not the other way around. (Which would honestly be fine w/ me if we could at least get him to do his COMPLETE business outside)

He is not free fed. He's fed 1st thing in the morning and again at 5:30 pm, everyday.

And he's almost a year and half.

When we take him out, we walk him around for about 5 minutes after he goes. We'll try upping that amount. But honestly, as soon as he's done, he's the one heading back towards the door (his anxiety is by far less IN the house than it is outside). I guess its foolish for us to take his word on being "done." He's not so reliable when it comes to being in the house w/out accidents, why would we assume he knows when its time to go in.

P

I think that's all the questions you guys had for me. Hope I answered 'em all.

Lynn Neild

Posted : 6/27/2006 8:36:32 PM

Oh, and when I say "after he goes outside we walk him around for 5 minutes" it might sound confusing.

We praise him, give him a treat, walk him around a bit more to see if there's any more in there. If it seems like there isn't, we'll play w/ him for awhile as a reward then take him inside (which half the time seems like where he wants to go anyway).