Silly drinking question... (Chelsea)

Hmmm, interesting question.  I am curious to see what people will think.  I do not drink at all.  I've never been drunk.  Ever.  I have never liked the taste of alcohol and I, too have an addictive personality so I know it wouldn't go well.  Both of my parents were/are alcoholics.  If my dad were still alive, he would definitely have a problem if I was drinking and my sister drinks quite a lot which will probably turn into a "problem".  I would just rather not get myself into that situation in the first place so I don't drink at all. 

Chelsea, the following was sent to me by my recovering alcoholic cousin to help me understand the addiction my son has:

The THIQ Phenomenon

Before Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) members were aware of the phenomenon of "THIQ" (tetrahydroisoquinolone), they defined alcoholism (http://www.addictionsearch.com/treatment_articles/alcoholism_5_1.html) as an obsession of the mind and an allergy of the body. As far back as 1935, AA members were aware that their bodies reacted differently when they drank alcohol, as compared to the social drinker.

Considerable research has been dedicated to the field of chemical dependency since 1935. We now know that out of all the possible factors that can lead to alcoholism, genetics is the most significant factor. In other words, a person is four times more likely to become dependent on alcohol or drugs when there is a history of alcohol or drug (illegal or prescription) dependency in the family tree. This is called a "genetic predisposition." Having a predisposition for becoming dependent on alcohol or other sedative type drugs means that the individual may have a different bio-chemical makeup than the person who has no family history of alcoholism. This is explained by the phenomenon of THIQ. Some researchers believe that there is a certain gene for alcoholism, which may direct the production of THIQ.

Medical researchers have discovered that this chemical, tetrahydroisoquinolone, or THIQ, is present in the brains of alcoholics and persons who are dependent on depressants, sedative type drugs. Alcoholics have shown levels of this THIQ in their urine and, during autopsies, THIQ has been found in the brains of people who were alcoholics. THIQ is manufactured during the detoxification process of alcohol-a process that is different for alcoholics than for non-alcoholics.

The following explains the detoxification (breakdown) process of alcohol in a person who is not an alcoholic:

1. Alcohol is drunk.
2. The alcohol goes to the liver and the liver changes it into a chemical called acetaldehyde.
3. Acetaldehyde is a poisonous chemical that is immediately changed to acetic acid (vinegar) in a non-alcoholic.
4. The vinegar is changed to water and carbon dioxide and is thereby eliminated.

The alcoholic's alcohol detoxification process is slightly different. It is as follows:

1. Alcohol is drunk.
2. The alcohol goes to the liver and the liver changes it into a chemical called acetaldehyde.
3. Acetaldehyde combines with certain neurotransmitters (chemicals of the brain) to form the complex molecule tetrahydroisoquinolone, or THIQ.
4. This THIQ accumulates in the brain and contributes to cravings for alcohol.

THIQ accumulates in the brain and never goes away. By acting on the pleasure center of the brain, it can produce the same kind of euphoric feelings as cocaine or narcotics such as heroin or morphine. THIQ is also very addictive, which explains why the alcoholic continues to drink even when the alcohol is causing him/her problems. It is very important that a person who is dependent upon alcohol or depressant drugs abstain from all mood/mind-altering drugs, so that the THIQ may live dormant in the brain and not continue to produce cravings.

I do not drink now, but when I was younger, I did.  I don't really have an addictive personality, but mostly drank to 1) be part of the crowd or 2) if I drank, my alcoholic husband's drinking didn't seem so intolerable. 

I was adopted and know nothing about my biological family.   The cousin who sent me this is not related by blood. I was raised in an alcoholic household, though, so it brings up the question of nature vs. nurture.

I cut back on my alcohol intake when my son was born because someone had to be the responsible adult in the house.  I also did it because I was afraid that I would become an alcoholic myself.  Think the movie "The Days of Wine & Roses."  And I have low-grade chronic depression, which I am being treated for, so I don't see the point of drinking since it basically counteracts the effects of my treatment.

There are no simple answers, which is why there may never be a "cure" for alcohol addiction.

 eta: this is attached to Tina's post but it is in response to the OP.  

Some what sounds to me like you have GUILT over drinking and that GUILT might manifest itself in many ways...including making you think things about yourself that are not true. I do think that guilt itself...CAN become an addiction for people...as can doubt....it can hamper your daily life, prevent you from being what you have potential to be, and create a lot of drama...because drama is what you may think is "normal" given a history you might have (all you's general).

IMO living life afraid of becoming an addict because someone else was...is no way to live life. I come from strong alkie stock myself, as well as abusers and molesters...and yet I am none of those things.

You are not the sum parts of other people's issues. That is my own personal philosophy. You are in control of your choices...good AND bad. No excuses, no free passes, but also...no daily dose of guilt or worry eating away at you. I did need some serious soul searching and some therapy sessions to come to this point tho so that is definitely something to consider.

I understand not everyone feels this way tho...and respect other viewpoints.

I don't drink much either, I have two alcoholic uncles.  I am not afraid of becoming an alcoholic; rather, their behavior and how they treat their families has made a negative association with alcohol (same with smoking - I see what it's done to my dad and just have no desire to ever take a single drag).  I do drink occasionally, just one or two at a time, and I really look forward to it but I think that's because I just like to "go out", I like to eat and be with friends or DH.  Most of the time once I'm there I don't even end up ordering drinks.  It is easy for me though as I'm very picky and hate most alcohol, plus I get "Asian glow" which is annoying.

I think maybe you are feeling guilty, or subconsciously worrying about it and that anxiety leads you to fixate on it?  The alcoholics I know spend all of their time drinking and none of their time thinking or worrying about it!

rwbeagles

IMO living life afraid of becoming an addict because someone else was...is no way to live life. I come from strong alkie stock myself, as well as abusers and molesters...and yet I am none of those things.

You are not the sum parts of other people's issues. That is my own personal philosophy. You are in control of your choices...good AND bad. No excuses, no free passes, but also...no daily dose of guilt or worry eating away at you. I did need some serious soul searching and some therapy sessions to come to this point tho so that is definitely something to consider.

There is SO MUCH in Gina's post -- and some of it is maturity.  And You, Chelsea, are now on your way TO maturity in this issue.

Chelsea, I could have written your post -- and literally just about everything written in that article, PLUS what Gina's said is all 100% true for you.  But it's even more complex than that because part of it is sorting thru your own maturity issues and how YOU learn to socialize with other people.

I suspect that when alcohol is involved "socialization" is different -- which then leads to a ton of guilt and new issues for you.  Soooo, how do you socialize effectively with "normal" people (cos to a degree you've now categorized yourself as "not normal" and ... since I think "normal" is pretty much a fallacy that's kinda true) -- you likely long for the whole enchilada -- the social stuff, the feelings the alcohol produces, while you -- at the same time --- drive yourself nuts over the whole guilt thing.

Welcome to the club. 

True story -- when David and I first started Dating (and I was OVER 40!!!) we were in the UK and I went out to dinner with David and his Dad and his sister.  We were at an Inn -- NO driving would be involved, and it was a late, very sociable dinner between family.  David's Dad and his sister had a shot of whiskey before dinner with a beer chaser.  Then AT dinner they both had wine .... and ale later in the meal.  THEN BOTH OF THEM had an after dinner "dessert" drink.

David had mostly beer and ale but also had an after dinner drink.

I merely had a nervous break-down. 

Seriously --- I did.  I had never EVER EVER SEEN any bunch of people mix that much of different types of alcohol IN ONE EVENING!  I can remember when I was in college someone drummed it into my head NEVER "mix" your drinks because that way you don't get sick ...

We got back to our room and I literally was nearly hysterical with fear.  David and I talked long into the night about it -- and it is literally the European way of doing it.  It's interesting -- in the UK is it pretty unusual to see people drink and drive.  They may not be able to WALK a straight line coming home from the pub but they don't get behind the wheel of a car the way people do here. 

But it was a wake-up call for ME as well, because I didn't realize how incredibly DEEP my fears about alcohol were.

so you're smart, honestly, to catch on to your own potential weakness.  What you're doing is really darned healthy, Chelsea and I really have to give you a HUGE bunch of credit for working your way thru this in such a sane matter AND for getting input from such a broad source.

Just don't think the answer, for you, is going to be simple -- 'cos it's not.  And realizing that is a lot of good mental health for you because you won't let yourself FALL into problems. 

and p.s. -- my mother was TERRIFIED (not only about the fact that David and I met online, which she thot meant he was a serial-killer ANYWAY) -- but the fact that he was half Scot (his Dad) and half Irish (his Mum) and FROM Scotland -- my mother had him chalked up to be a complete alcoholic way before she ever met him.  I think it's been quite a puzzle for her to find out (14 years later) that he's less likely to ever be an alcoholic than anyone I've ever known. 

*hugs* and good luck. 

 I also come from a family background of alcoholism, and have something of an addictive personality myself, and I don't drink, and never intend to. So take that background into account with my response :)

For me, it's a cost/benefit analysis. What are the potential gains from drinking? What are the potential losses? For me, personally, it's a no-brainer - it's just not worth it to me to drink. For me, there is no benefit that would make drinking worth the associated risks. I just don't want to go there, you know?

I hang out with people who drink, I go to bars with people who drink, I even buy alcohol for people who drink, but the "drinking scene" isn't really my deal anyway (I'm not a huge partier) and I don't feel like I'm missing out by sticking to juice and soda. When friends come over, we stock up on alcohol, and some of them will have 3-5 beers in a night while eating pizza, playing games, whatever. Occasionally we'll make pina coladas or margaritas or something, and we just make a small batch of "virgin" first, for me and our occasional other non-drinking friends (turns out Mormons pregnant people aren't so big on the alcohol, either ).

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't drink, but I guess just that you shouldn't feel like you have to, if that makes sense. Whatever choice(s) you make, it certainly sounds like you're thinking a lot about what's best for you, and I think that's the most important part.

Cita

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't drink, but I guess just that you shouldn't feel like you have to, if that makes sense. Whatever choice(s) you make, it certainly sounds like you're thinking a lot about what's best for you, and I think that's the most important part.

absolutely understand this. I know a lot people who turn 21 feel like they are SUPPOSED to drink and that really is not the case. BUT if you like something, the taste and how it offers a modicum or relaxation in your life then IMO denying yourself based upon what MIGHT happen or what DID happen to someone else comes from a place of fear...and that is not healthy IMO.

It is not wrong or bad to LIKE the way a buzz feels or wine tastes, any more than it is to like chocolate...or french fries...IMO it's your mindset around your actions and not the action itself that you need to look at...your motivations...your feelings afterwards...etc.

I could use chocolate or fatty foods here instead of alcohol...how many of us here have fat obese relations? Our own parents or aunts/uncles? How many of us here NEVER, ever, touch fatty or unhealthy foods because of that? probably very few. Probably very few people hold this same view of something that, going by stats is MORE harmful to your person, your health, your self esteem, your relationships...than a drink or even 3, in a week.

If you (general) are capable of living with yourself just fine, when it comes to food choices, but not drinking, well that's intersting.

It's all very interesting. IMO moderation and being able to moderate yourself, your own behaviors...and not base that moderation on fear...worry, paranoia based on OTHER people's lack of moderation, or peer pressure...is a huge step in life. And being okay with choosing TO indulge in something that has been a hot button for others in your life and not feel lousy about it is also a huge step IMO. You are you...not them. So simple...but yet hard to get to sometimes!

Good for you Chelsea for asking questions about this...it is a very thought provokiing issue.

chelsea_b

when I do drink, for like a week afterwards, I can't stop thinking about when I'm drinking again...once I get past that week or so, I can go months without touching any kind of alcohol, but I seriously obsess about it for about a week. every. single. time. I drink. Does this sound like the makings of a problem, or normal, or somewhere in between?

Are there any other behaviors that your mom and family instilled such huge amounts of guilt into?  Ie, is there anything else that your family obsessed over as evil that made you "understand" from an early age would be this side of hell-dom if you became involved in it?  If so, have you done those things and had the same experience of obsession for the following week?  That would tell me if it's an obsession over the GUILT or obsession over the desire for alcohol.  In your own response, though, are you saying you obsess over the DESIRE to CONSUME MORE ALCOHOL.... rather the act of already having consumed it? 

Is it the making of a problem?  I'm no doctor, but I think any obsession is the makings of a problem.  Would avoiding alcohol the rest of your life solve this?  Actually, I don't think so - I think it feeds the guilt obsession even more.  I think the way out is to find another coping mechanism to deal with the guilt associations - or else you're going to keep yourself inside a box of behaviors/experiences that are deemed "ok" by someone else's standards and not your own.  Doesn't mean you need to go out and try everything "bad", but it does mean YOU need to define for YOURSELF what are acceptable behaviors and experiences for YOU..... without someone else's guilt.  The fact that you hide your drinking experiences from your family tells me are defining what's right and wrong for you based on their criteria, not your own.

(This from the biological daughter of a super alcoholic who turned to AA and has been sober 25+ years...)

You guys are awesome, and every post in this thread resonates with me majorly..

rwbeagles

And being okay with choosing TO indulge in something that has been a hot button for others in your life and not feel lousy about it is also a huge step IMO. You are you...not them. So simple...but yet hard to get to sometimes!

But this Gina, I can't believe how exactly me this is. I have one sister who literally has never had a drop of alcohol in her life. She's in her late 20's, married, two kids, and just has vowed to never drink. Then my other two sisters have both overdone drinking at some point in their lives...namely their teenage years, but one of them has extended it now into her thirties...

In pretty much everything I do, someone compares me to my sisters, so I guess it's only natural that in drinking, I either have to be like the one who never drinks, or the two that overdo it. I just want to be me though, so I end up not talking about it to anyone for fear of being compared...but I'm worried that's an unhealthy habit too, to sort of "hide" whether or not I drink?

Cita

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't drink, but I guess just that you shouldn't feel like you have to, if that makes sense.

Right, and I really don't. This is why I didn't drink until "late".. I think my first drink was a bit of wine when I was..17 or 18. The first time I even got a little buzzed I was probably 19. Like I said, I can count on one hand the number of times I've been drunk. That was my motto for ever...why should I do something just because everyone else does? If I don't particularly want to drink, I don't drink. I didn't drink on my 21st birthday, or for a few months afterwards.. I just didn't have any particular need to. It's legal now? Great, who cares...lol.

rwbeagles

It is not wrong or bad to LIKE the way a buzz feels or wine tastes

See, that's exactly it.. I do like being buzzed. I don't like being fall-over drunk. My sister told me that our mom once told her that the only reason to drink at all, is to get drunk...and that's just beyond moronic in my book. If having a couple beers makes me feel good, and lowers my inhibitions enough to be a little...less me, haha.. then why can't I do that?

miranadobe

In your own response, though, are you saying you obsess over the DESIRE to CONSUME MORE ALCOHOL.... rather the act of already having consumed it?

Right, after I drink, I obsess over wanting to drink again... but honestly now that I'm thinking about it more (and with what Callie said), maybe what I really want more of is whatever I was doing when I was drinking. This past weekend I went with a coworker to a dirty little dive bar, played darts and pool, met a couple cool people...and I really can't wait to do it again. But I do know that it's also about the alcohol, the buzz...saying and doing things I might not normally do (because I'm too aloof or negative or whatever sober), forgetting everything that's wrong with my life for a couple hours and just having fun...

I don't really know.. But thanks for all the input, it's definitely interesting to hear everyone's experiences and thoughts on this topic.