Whole Body Is Sore

Ok, Im going to get some in a bit... thanks for the instructions lol I probably would have been fooling with it like a rubix cube for an hour[]
 
She is very carsick, at least once every time she has been in the car she throws up.  I dont mind because Ive learned to take a towel and can handle it easy but I just feel so bad for her.  She just lays there like everythings fine and then up it comes.  I fed her yesterday before going, dont know why just worked out that way and wasnt thinking, and she threw up once on the way there and twice on the way home.  Def, wont feed her, and will try to take her out more[]
 
She has been sleeping a lot but the vet did say she may sleep more than usual after the vaccs....

Welll sheesh!  I went to find the reciept from the first vet visit she had with a diff doctor and it says 3rd puppy vaccination
 
coronovirus booster
DA2PL Booster
Parvo Booster DUP101
Rabies Booster
Bordetella Vaccination - C/P
 
So the rabies are done?  She doesnt need that one again right?  Until later of course....  Im afraid this may be her fourth since they both say third.  But, we got her from the pound so it was hard to know what was done.  The first visit was March 23 and the latest one was May 5. 
 
So I should only get her one more Bordetella and then were done...?

Rabies should be only once every three years .. or maybe annual depending on your state. 
 
Bordatella -- they'll tell you it's good for 6 months, but honestly don't give it again until you must -- like if you are going to kennel her or something and need it for proof.  It doesn't cover very many strains of kennel cough -- and it's a personal decision but two a year is more than I want to give.
 
How old is she?? 
 
See, the "combo shots" your vet is using aren't effective for really long -- typically a year (or sometimes less which is why some vets want to vaccinate twice a year and DON'T do that).   But once you do the next round NEXT year, and give just one "modified live" parvo and one "modified live" of distemper ... after that you can titer (a blood test that shows immunity) and not subject her to all these vaccines that are dangerous.  Once she's had those two modified live shots she'll be good for YEARS.  3 years bare minimum but often dogs can go many many years (like 10 or more) and not need shots every year. 
 
Your vet may kick a bit, because a lot of vets use shots to 'get you in there' thinking people won't bother to bring the dog in otherwise.  But if you make an annual 'date' to pull titers you'll spend just as much money and it's better for your dog.  That's what I do anyway.
 
But yeah, you've kind of over-vaccinated a bit -- so the thuja is important for her. 

Thats what I was telling her!  That I wasnt sure about it all and she just said well its better to overdo it (as it wont hurt her) than not get her what she needs[:@]
 
So I dont need ANYTHING in three weeks really right...?  Shes 5 months.
 
I thought I liked this vet, sigh.

Not this should stand as the 6 month shots.  At (or after) a year, then do that one modified live parvo and distemper (NOT at the same time -- give her two months between). 
 
Just talk to the vet.  TALK ... "train her" in essence.  See they don't know who they can and can't "trust" to really do what they say they will.  So for them, the ethical thing is to ensure that a dog IS vaccinated and if you didn't bring in her proof of rabies that's why they suggested it -- so THEY had record.
 
Don't do another rabies for a YEAR or 3 years -- whatever your state calls for.  And make sure a 3 year vaccine was used -- DON'T just guess.  Call the pound or where you got her and get them to look up the lot number from their records so you can call Merial or whoever they got it from and check if it's a one year or 3 year vaccine.  Check what the vet gave her too. 
 
Honestly?  being a good guardian is a lot of work -- it means YOU keep records, YOU keep copies.  I keep a file folder on each dog, and archive it and start a new one for each dog every year.  Then I can 'prove' records anywhere we take them.  We travel with them, take them all over the place -- and the more you take them, the easier it gets. 
 
Don't give up on the vet -- talk to her.  Give her a reason to trust YOU.  Discuss things with her -- vets get prickly if they think you're questioning them, so be sure to phrase it  like "I know Jean Dodds says ..." (and KNOW what Jean Dodds says -- do your research and know what you are talking about).
 
But once the vet knows you are interested, they'll treat you like you have a brain (or they should).
 
It's easier to "let the vet tell me what to do" -- but NOT as good for your dog.  That can be a tough personal decision to make because most of us don't really LIKE knowing this kind of stuff.  But Bailey is worth it isn't she??

Make your annual appointment to have her HW test done.  I personally, if I didn't want to do the vaccines myself would ORDER (Revival pets is one place I've found it) JUST the parvo/distemper vaccine.  And Callie is right...you WANT the modified live virus one.

Rabies should NOT be given before 24 weeks.  Dr Jean Dodds recommends parvo/distemper at 9 and 12 weeks and then again between 16-20 weeks and rabies NOT before 24 weeks.  Then boosters at one year.  RABIES SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN MORE THAN ONCE IN THE PUPPY SHOTS.

You need to understand that after 15-16 weeks, there is NO reason to give the shots in a series.  They don't get MORE immunities from more shots.  ONE shot does the trick.  The reason shots are given in a series is this.....pups loose mommas immunities between 8-15 weeks.  A vaccine given BEFORE the immunity is lost is wasted, but you've gotta catch those early "loosers" to protect them.  The pup who looses his mommas immunity at 8 weeks, well, he's protected...the pup who waits until 15 weeks, well, he just had two vaccinations that didn't do a darned thing for him, except *maybe* challenge his immune system.  But, until there is a safe and cost effective way to be able to determine from titers that yep, that shot took so this pup is done from this pup still has MOM's immunities and none of his own....this is the best and safest way to protect ALL the pups, early and late loosers.

The ONE time in my life that I've given bordatella is when I was FORCED to do so.  My FIL died and I had to kennel my dogs and hightail it from MS to NH where hubby was waiting for me.  And, I had to drive to do it.  I kenneled them at my vets office and they were given bordatella before he took them in.  Now just how much GOOD that did, within minutes of exposure, I'm not sure.  But, bordatella protects against 3 or 4  of the 8 different strains of KC.  So at best only half of them.  I'd not booster the bordatella at all unless you are going to kennel her.  KC is basically, (and it's not exactly but no worse than) a cold.  Yes, it can become MORE, can lead to pnemonia and other complications, but it's not the huge big deal that VETS want us to think it is.

And yep, I agree, this little one has had PLENTY of vaccines.  A year from now, take her back for the boosters....parvo/distemper one day and rabies at LEAST 4 weeks later, have her blood drawn for HW testing, and thereafter, have titers done at the same time as the HW test (saves her a stick).  ONLY vaccinate again if the titers are low.  BUT, do insist on MLV.

I dont think being a good mom is hard at all, and I think they are more than worth whatever is needed.  I have just always done what the vet says, but I dont beat myself up about that.  I DO prefer to know more and now Im learning but lots of people dont know, like I didnt, and they just give the best care they can by following vets orders.  I always have records, I have Kaylas folder, she was always at the vet on time to get what she needed, got her heartworn pill every month on time, got her frontline each month on time, and got a capstar pill when other dogs that I didnt know came over because she was allergic to fleas.   I rubbed cream on her belly when I saw blackheads, massaged her paws, brushed her, just spent every waking second on my life with her or thinking of her.  She was my soul mate and worth everything and anything and I would have died for her.  The best feeling in the world was when we would stare into each others eyes... it was just like we totally got each other and communicated on another level.  Now, Bailey most certainly is worth everything too.  I dont know if I came off like anything was too much trouble but I certainly dont feel that way.  Unfortunately I have never known enough to question the vets suggestions of what to do.  And in fact I did offer to call the pound and see but they said not that important, it wont hurt to give these extra.  She did only get rabies once.  Now that I called them, shes had 3 of everything excpet bordetella, 2 bordetella, and one rabies total. 
 
I will certainly talk to the vet but I think she knows I would do everything I needed to.  Kayla was always in perfect shape, perfect weight, perfectly healthy... other than a sensitive pancreas which we had no way of knowing about.  And trust me if there was anything that could have been done I would have done it and done it gladly.  I would have sold my house if the cost was that high... ANYTHING.  I told her that.  Even now I would do anything as long as it didnt kill me to have her back... and as I said when she was alive I would have done anything even if it did kill me to keep her safe.
 
Ive never once felt like anything was too much trouble for Kayla or Bailey, and Im glad I am learning so much new stuff here.  []

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

Bailey is SO beautiful! I love her humongous ears So sweet.

don't take what I said "personally" please -- I wasn't being critical of you at all.  But it is hard for a lot of us (and I'm gonna stand at the head of that line because this was SOOO hard for me at first) to stand up and tell the vet "no". 
 
This is just one set of shots that made Bailey feel yuck ... but Glenda and I and some others have seen things like vaccinosis and horrible long term (and sometimes fatal results) when dogs get too many vaccines (usually just what a vet recommended). 
 
It's more a matter of who decides what IS needed -- just following the vet's recommendations down the line ... some people would say that should be the guideline for what is 'needed' ... and I'm suggesting it's more important for the owner to do more of the 'deciding' by being more informed. 
 
I think probably a good share, and maybe even a majority, of us on here are willing to go the extra mile like you are.  Willing to do most ANYTHING they need. 
 
But the hard part (at least it was for me) is learning to become informed enough to tell the vet no, in order to avoid some other problem.  (Like vaccines are supposed to be benign and not be a problem if you give too many, but that's not leaving room for things like vaccinosis to happen -- where dogs get long term sick, or develop immune-mediated problems because OF the over vaccinations.)
 
Did I make that more clear, or did I muck it up worse??

No no no, you didnt say anything wrong.  Im sorry if I came off as defensive, I didnt feel the need to defend myself, I just wanted to share that Im one of those willing to do ansolutly anything and any info is completely welcome... Im a sponge! lol.  I totally agree that it is hard to stand up to a vet and say no, but its utterly impossible if you dont know what your talking about.  I really dont mind doing it when I go back... I will ceratinly tell her that I am an informed owner and will take care of what I need to and be there when I need like you said to assure her of (I honestly didnt even think about thats why they do it the way they do.. because they dont think the owners are going to do whats necessary to do it differently, but it sounds about right!)  I would think, and I could be wrong, that she would appreciate a client such as that.  Meaning if I have to come back more often and do things a different way or whatever thats what Im gonna do if its better for my baby, and you can count on me to be here...  I hope she responds or Ill maybe look into someone else.  I do like her though so I have hope[]
 
I know you werent being critical, and I want all the help I can to get as informed as possible!  It is hard to learn those things and feel like you are right and you know best, but I will get there, and I already know shes not getting any more for a while!

I had a vet who decided that I needed to learn to do my own vaccines.  At the time I had 4 dogs and 6 cats and SHE felt it was foolish to have to pay for an office visit and the vaccines for so many critters.  She advised me on what and where to order and she taught me HOW to vaccinate.  This is YEARS and years ago, and I went through life feeling a little guilty that I didn't always GET those vaccines every year, because heck, it was CHEAP to do it myself, but some part of me just didn't feel that those ANNUAL vaccines were all that important.  Something questioned why did they NEED them every year.  After Rusty almost died from a reaction to a vaccine THAT vet said he really didn't need yearly vaccines anymore cuz he was older and not lucky to contract any of the "puppy diseases" that the vaccines were really for.  And when I asked him about the OTHERS he said since they were all over 5 maybe just every other year would be best.  This was 10 years ago.  And that was the very first that a VET actually told me that I didn't have to be so anal about their shots.  But even tho I didn't DO shots each and every year as I should have, part of me thought I was being horrible and negligent.  Part of me wondered why they NEEDED so many....after all, my KIDS didn't have to get re-vacced every year and THEY got far more exposure than my dogs did.
 
I think most of us grew up trusting medical professionals, believing that they had our best interests at heart....after all, they were DOCTORS.  They worked long and hard to become doctors to help people or critters.  In the last 20 years or so though, things have changed drastically.  In 1973 my Dad's doc sent him to the Cleveland Clinic.  HE told my Dad that CC gave him a clean bill of health.  He lied.  What he didn't tell my Dad was that the SMALL arteries, the ones that they couldn't bypass in those days, were clogging, and that he was going to die of congestive heart failure, which wasn't treatable in those days, or not as it is now.  Mother didn't find any of this out until the last year of Dad's life when specialists got the actual records and shared that information with them.  Mom never even THOUGHT of sueing.
 
What this man did was wrong, and not fair to my parents...THEY should have had the right to decide how they were going to spend my Dad's remaining years....BUT, my guess would be that this Doc, who had treated them for YEARS knew that my Dad, who had grown up on a farm and worked hard all his life, wouldn't be able to ENJOY those last years worrying about getting things in order for Mother, and that Mother, would hover so badly and be soooo over protective that Dad wouldn't be able to enjoy even the things that he COULD do.  It was wrong, but back then, docs often made these types of decisions....to keep the truth from patients that couldn't be helped.  But, by doing this, he kept them from seeking out specialists who maybe could have at least improved the quality of life for those last few years.  Dad was only 57 when he died.
 
But to SUE a doctor??  That didn't happen in those days.  It had to be something HUGE to even think about sueing a doctor.  Then something changed so drastically that docs had to start to really over their butts, at the same time seeing more and more patients in order to cover the cost of malpractice insurance, and medical costs started to SKYROCKET and insurance costs started to sky rocket and pretty soon insurance companies begin to dictate how MUCH they would pay for procedures and WHAT tests they'd pay for at all.  So it evolved that if we wanted good health care, WE had to become educated consumers of health care.
 
I think our attitudes towards people docs carry over to animal docs and mostly because THIS is the way we were raised......not to question educated people who devote their lives to helping.
 
Now it's not AS bad in animal medicine, but like everything else, THEIR costs of doing business have risen, they are seeing a lot more patients and many either don't have or don't make time to really keep up with the fast changing "rules" and recommendations.  So WE need to be educated consumers here too.
 
I think sometimes vets are nervous about embracing new things because, after all, if they are WRONG, it isn't the organization that recommended it that's gonna get sued.  And, as human's it's hard to change long standing thinking.....if we've always done something one way, it's hard to embrace a new way for many.
 
So, again, we need to be armed with as much information as we can get our hands on.  WE need to read the recommendations and the studies and we need to advocate for our critters.  And not blindly accept that the vet has their best interest at heart.  Many do, but many don't remember one dog from another.  And, face it, in our very mobile society, not many animals even have the same vet over their lifetimes.
 
Vaccines are probably the biggest area of controversy, but there are also things like use of steroids and the use of certain pain killers where the cure is almost worse than the condition.....with stuff like possible liver and kidney damage.  Everyone who OWNS an animal should go to Dr. Jean Dodd's website and really educate themselves.  This is a woman who, against all odds being an older woman, has risen to the very top of her field.  This is the woman who has set up thyroid protocols by BREED instead of lumping all dogs into a one size fits all test.  This is a woman who has completely dedicated her entire life to learning so she could better help animals.
 
OK, best get off the soapbox before I bore everyone to death........
 
But, being a good mom TODAY does mean educating yourself on stuff that USED to be the vets job.  Vaccines are NOT harmless...they stress the immune system horribly....and too many aren't safer than too few.  Next chapter I'll explain the why's and hows of the puppy series.....and why  after the age of 16 weeks, it isn't really needed.  []

I trusted the vets with my Candy-girl and they gave her a whole slew of shots- similar to what Bailey was given, only a giardia/coccidia vaccine, (I didn't even know they made those) and lymes and Candy was 11 years old!
To top it off, they also gave her a Proheart 6 shot, and you all know what happened from there.
I asked the vet a number of times if all the vaccines and the proheart shot was safe, and she assured me that there had been no adverse reactions so far to PH6 (I'd later learn differently). When Candy was sick and started to go downhill, the vet wouldn't look me in the eye and tell me what she had. She did offer to do a necropsy though (not for free of course). Now why would they offer that if they felt that they had done everything right?
 
You live and learn though. I question EVERYTHING my vet does with Daisy, and she's perfectly fine with that. We had a long meaningful conversation about food allergies a couple weeks ago. (they sell Natura products and Newman's own dog biscuits in their clinic) I just told her I used to be a biology major (which is true) so I know a little bit about urine pH and skin problems and stuff like that.
 
Amy, I hope you don't think that you're a bad mommy! You certainly aren't! I know that you would go through snake pits for your pets no matter what. (The scariest thing for me, but I'd do it in a heartbeat for my girl)
 

Im sorry about your dad Glenda... its a shame really that doctors who know most people will do what they say and trust them are making decisions without talking with us first or getting to know what OUR needs are for us or our dogs.  We can only inform ousrselves and do what we think is right, and I wouldnt feel guilty about that if something happened because my goodness things happen when we put the trust into the docs too.  Its just a matter of being informed enough to do it... I will cretainly look at the Dr. Dodds website  )
 
Laura Im so sorry about your Candy!