Talk me out of Dobes and GSDs :)

 Ugh, dobes have a lot of health issues too. Dilated cardiomyopathy and cancer being the biggest. Other health concerns are CVI (wobblers), thyroid issues, hip dysplasia, and vwd. A lot of breeders try to hype up the fact that they test for vwd is awesome. Personally, i would rather see the echo and holter reports than the vetgen for vwd.

 Oh, and not trying to toot my own horn here...but have you ever considered a ridgeback? Very hardy...and hardly any major health issues. They are tolerant of weather, smart, athletic but also lazy... I honestly don't have enough good things to say about RRs.

I am going to add this little tidbit.

You could do all the research in the world, make sure everything is done right and still get a pup/dog that develops with an illness. Don't let the potential of some serious issue sway you from what you really want.

Keep doing your research and asking questions.

the_gopher

 Wow that is quite a list of health concerns to consider.  Allergies and skin issues are probably the least of my concerns, I'm more worried about more serious ailments (not that those aren't, but they are probably easier managed/treated than some others). 

 

Depends on severity.  My friend's late GSD was allergic to everything.  And by everything I mean even stuff like grass, so she had to have a cement yard and could not even go outside certain times of the year.  The dog could only eat sweet potato and ostrich meat, not a cheap diet.  She was on Atopica which is very expensive.  She had to be bathed and wrapped and covered in cream multiple times each day.  Honestly, I have seen GSDs with such severe allergies that to me it would present a quality of life issue, regardless of the cost and work involved to treat it.

But like Truly said, I don't mean to scare, just that these things do happen with this breed.  My two don't have any of the health issues listed, nor do any other of the GSDs I know personally (besides the one I mentioned above with the allergies that died when she was 14, she had also survived lepto).

RidgebackGermansShep

Personally, i would rather see the echo and holter reports than the vetgen for vwd.

Megan, I agree with this to a point.  Cardio is much more likely to be an issue than vWD is, but I still want to know vWD status.

And Megan, don't rule out Josie as a guard dog yet.  Give her a year to year & a half to mature first before writing her off. 

There's nothing better than a Doberman! I've had three, plus a foster, and am around many more constantly. They're fantastic! As others have said, they're certainly not as willing to please you as a GSD usually is, but that doesn't mean they're too difficult to train. It's all about finding what motivates them! Keira was a challenging puppy... her attention span was about the same as Ari's, which made training hard for a while but around 5mths old she calmed down a bit and became easier to train/get her attention. She hit a pretty naughty stage between 8-15mths where she couldn't care less about what we wanted from her and often "forgot" what the simplest of behaviours meant, but now she's a dream at 18mths. She's the sweetest, most family oriented dog ever. She loves to learn, and is super easy to teach things to. She is energetic -- she needs about an hour and a half to two hours of running per day, but if she doesn't get that, she's still tolerable. Now, anyway! When she was younger she'd be bouncing of the walls if she didn't get a ton of exercise. She loves everyone and everything, but isn't overthetop about it. She can be pretty demanding for attention with family and takes "velcro dog" to a whole new level, but is much more reserved with friends and strangers. Ripley, my 11 week old puppy, is already a much easier puppy than Keira was. He's far more biddable and willing to learn/please us than Keira was. He's not as energetic either as she was at this age, but still plenty active. I'm sure he'll hit a bad stage at some point, but right now he's incredibly easy for a puppy. All of my Dobes have been pretty wimpy in the rain, haha. They absolutely hate it, so in that aspect can be a little difficult to housebreak. But eventually they tolerate it! It's pouring today and both of mine give me disgusted glares everytime I make them go out. Keira and my last Dobe loved the snow though! Just as long as they had a coat of some sort on, they were thrilled to be out playing in it. Anyhow, after being around quite a few Flat-Coats (a friend of my dobe breeder/friend breeds flatties), I definitely don't think a Dobe would be too difficult for you! In fact, I find my Dobermans a lot easier in many aspects than my retrievers (Tollers) are. My only problem with Dobermans are their associated health issues, as others have mentioned.

orangedog

Ripley, my 11 week old puppy, is already a much easier puppy than Keira was. He's far more biddable and willing to learn/please us than Keira was.

>>cough,cough,cough<<   WHERE THE HECK ARE THE PICS??????   I wanna see your new baby!!

Yeah Orangedog...I have to agree with Amanda.  Not only your newbie....but I just love your orange dogs....such as beautiful and (to me) unique color.  Haven't seen them in quite a while. 

Sorry, off topic.  Ummm......get a GSD brother for Ari.

Xeph

Really, the only "talking out of" GSDs I could give you would to tell you that they're not at all healthy as a breed....not at all :(

But they are wonderful companions and I don't see myself being without one 

 

 IMO Flatcoats are actually worse off health wise - unfortunately, a large number of them develop cancer at a young age (6 years and under).

 I have had three GSDs and two are still doing well at 12. These two dogs have had no major health issues (one had chronic ear infections/hot spots prior to being switched to raw when I got her) at all and are from different lines. The third died at a young age due to uncontrollable seizures, something which I have known to happen to other GSDs but not something which I would say is real common. I know many, many people with old GSDs who are still relatively healthy for their ages. I will say though that IMO, this is a breed that does best on a raw or homecooked diet. I have seen such diets clear up chronic ear infections and hotspots in one of my own GSDs and in many other GSDs. Obviously some do fine on kibble but the ones who don't tend to very poorly on it.

 

 As someone mentioned, a big concern is the shedding - GSDs are HEAVY shedders. If you are someone who doesn't like too much dog hair around your place, a GSD is not for you. The shedding is actually hat will pobably prevent me from getting another GSD, at least in the near future. I had a rough collie and of course the Belgians and GSDs shedding is worse than either of those breeds. We call them German Shedders ;)

AgileGSD

If you are someone who doesn't like too much dog hair around your place, a GSD is not for you.

Agreed.  Although, I think for what you want out of a dog, it sounds like a GSD fits more in line, than a Dobe.  Hypothyroid is no big whoop, imo - just two pills twice a day forever.  They aren't expensive.  Cardio myopathy and cancer seem to take these Dobes much faster than they should.  I agree with Amanda, in that it's important to know if your dog could have vWD.  Wobblers (CVI) happens later in life, usually, and Amanda can tell you what she's gone through to mitigate it with Bevo.  My parents last Dobe had the start of wobblers, but it was cancer that took him (about 12 years old).  Bloat is probably equally as common in both breeds.

But if your SO wants a cold weather dog, better aim for the GSD.  Dobes tolerate snow and cold better than the rain, but they still shiver when they're outside for more than 30/40 minutes without a coat in the snow.  It's too bad you missed Doberman Rescue Unlimited's open house last month - you could have met Dobes in person, talked to a ton of Dobe owners, toured the facility, considered if maybe you might want to volunteer there to get some personal handling of Dobes.  But I still think a GSD or, really, a Ridgeback, could be great for you.

As far as trainability, I think you'll get clear results with a male GSD from good lines faster than some male Dobes.  Dobes will work you as much as you work them, it seems.  Check out Ridgies, though, seriously.  They could be all you wanted and more.

I agree with the ridgeback suggestion. I actually thought i had recommended a ridgeback to you, but looking back i guess i was just thinking it. They are a relatively healthy breed, athletic when necessary, laid back in the house, smart, agile, weather tolerant...i could go on and on. Ridgebacks are 100% for sure a breed i will always have.

If you decide to look for a GSD, there is now a genetic test for DM, degenerative myelopathy.

DM – Degenerative Myelopathy – The DM test is available for any breed, and is specifically recommended for Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Boxers, Standard Poodles, German Shepherds, Cardigan Welsh Corgis, and Pembroke Welsh Corgis.

http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/DM/ancmntDM.htm

We (husband and I) have owned 15+ GSDs in our married life. We have not had a single health issue I've seen listed in this thread. All of ours died of old age issues, all but one were over age 12 when they died. The one that died at age 5 died from anaphylactic shock due to wasp allergy. All of our dogs have been either German or Belgian imports or first generation from imports. We do see a lot more health issues in the GSDs from American lines. I guess if you are going the rescue route then you won't be able to pick and choose regarding bloodlines. As to the dobes, I've never owned any but have had many for training clients. They are less biddable than the GSD, but an intelligent breed. We also own and run a private dog park here and I will say that the dobes are some of the least popular with the other breeds. This is just an observation from watching group behavior around here, not anything formal or scientific. The dobe playstyle tends to annoy a majority of the other breeds so they end up in more squabbles than most. Annette

 I've never considered a ridgeback.  I do loooove the ones I get to "see" and read about here on the forum though.  I guess they escaped my attention since I've never personally met one. I'll definitely have to look more into them.  I wouldn't mind a dog that knows how to kick back once in awhile.  Don't get me wrong we are active, but it's increasingly difficult to wear Ari out (then again she's in the prime of her life and very young lol).  Every now and then the human has to rest!  Or maybe I'm still recovering from Ari going nuts when I was laid up with my ankle sprain for over a month.  Ugh.  The SO does well, but he doesn't take her out as long as I did...plus it was easier when the two of us could tag team her and tucker her out.

I'm kinda leaning more toward a GSD, but I also want a Dobe lol. We may very well end up and just adopt a shelter dog, so maybe I'll try to find a GSD/Dobe mix :)  Goodness knows, when I start researching Ridgebacks, I'll probably fall in love with them too!  The SO is not so sure he wants to go through another puppyhood lol.  Ok, he has said he is SURE he doesn't want to go get another puppy!  The SO has already stated no more than 2 dogs in the house...maybe when we get our second lol I'll be able to change his mind :) 

Health problems don't scare me away, but I do like to educate myself about the health issues I may experience. After all, if they scared me away, I NEVER would have gotten a flatcoat knowing we could lose our dog to a young age from cancer.  Cancer is such an issue in the breed.  The lines Ari comes from is very healthy, but the risk is still there of course.

I've never seen the issue with play style from Dobes the previous poster mentioned.  I've seen many dobes play with other breeds quite well, if they were well socialized of course.  Ari's gotten along with many dogs and their various play styles.  The only type of dog that wouldnt' survive in this house with Ari is a dog that doesn't like to play/wrestle.  Ari's preferred play style is pretty rough and tumble, but I've seen her adapt her playing to a variety of other dogs who don't like to play rough.  This is why we are considering adopting/rescuing an older dog - preferably one we can meet beforehand with Ari.

That's the main reason i love ridgebacks. Especially since i have 2 very high energy dogs. Wyatt is happy lounging around all day, or he is happy going hiking or anything of the sort. He's laid back, fearless, friendly while also being watchful- i ALWAYS feel safe with him, and he's just so darn cute.

Most of the dobes i've met were actually at the dog park. Pretty much every time i go, there's at least one and they've never caused a problem. Josie plays pretty rough- i have to watch her very closely with dogs that aren't mine.