Thoughts about "doodles"

 Well, we have certainly had a lot of these threads, and threads on BYB's, puppy mills, etc., and there are a multitude of reputable sites with such information on the Internet.  I have had people get really angry with me for alerting them to the fact that their "breeder" might be a mill, or at least less than responsible.  I have also had people thank me for ferreting out information that confirmed that they had been duped.  That doesn't mean that they stopped loving the dog they had purchased, but at least they would not be purchasing again from such a source.  I still often hear people with AKC breeds wanting to leave their dogs intact "in case we want to breed".  It seems as though we need a more national message...maybe Oprah can help LOL.  Someone, please, write that next book for the book club...

 

Any anyone who has read my own "Dog in Danger" thread ... I don't know where they got the original idea that pugs were cute, etc. but this woman completely missed the mark with ALL her "researcH" and she's been looking for SIX MONTHS.

But I'm going to put my own 2 cents in here.  Whether it's John Q. Public or his wife/s.o. Suzy Q Public you know what they often AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE???

Negative stuff.  They dismiss it as radicals, or "people just using the net for their own agenda" -- so all those hot threads, nasty-but-honest diatribes about how horrible byb's are and how irresponsible it is to get a dog that way or breed a dog that way? 

People IGNORE it.  Because most people who are looking for a dog are looking for something to 'feel good' or a good thing.  And if threads turn unpleasant, and people argue, and fuss and get nasty -- John Q Public just skips that one. 

On here, we tend to be passionate.  Often passionately angry for the dogs and how *they* suffer.

But if we want John Q. Public and his family and friends to listen, you gotta stay nice.  You've got to make it make sense without wounding them in the process. 

We get jaded.  We get angry.  Heaven knows, we clean up "Messes" enough.  And I think sometimes we *need* to vent to each other. 

I came really really close to crossing the line to "they're not EVER going to listen to me" with Pugster's (f/k/a "Bo bo";) new owners.  Yep, the husband fell in love, and they're going to "give it a month".

Do they UNDERSTAND that in a month he's in a socialization danger zone?  To they UNDERSTAND what horrible things can happen to a baby and a teething pup in just 30 seconds of being unsupervised?

No, and they're really not willing to listen.  Unfortunately not everyone IS willing to listen. 

 I honestly wish that every single AKC entry and every breed-rescue website would start out with an obligatory paragraph like this (tailored to the breed):

Pugs!!  Great little companions!  Think *maybe* you'd like a pug? 

Would you like a dog that sheds more than nearly any breed on the planet?  Pugs are for YOU!

Would you like a dog that is so incredibly social that it MUST either have someone at home 24/7 or at the very least other dogs it can lay on, harass, drag around by the ear or at the very least sleep UPON all the time?  Pugs are for YOU!

Would you like a dog that will exercise your benevolence towards your vet?  Because you'll likely contribute often -- if your breeder hasn't done an excellent job (and leftover-puppies or "we have just a couple left" or "we have a brand new litter to see!" are among those breeders who will keep your vet trips frequent and dexpensive!!).  Why? 

• demodectic mange (mange?  YEP!)
• a huge array of eye problems (or eye *injury* problems, see below)
• frequently seizure dogs
• myriad skin problems (in those cute facial folds, too)
• immune problems
• respiratory problems galore!!

Pugs are for you!

Want a dog who is high energy, bounces off walls and really needs to be kept BUSY ???  Pugs are for you!

Want a dog who is social and may be happy to play with children, but who is also incredibly fragile and easily injured (eye problems, knee problems,  and if not well bred may have a temperament problem or feel too sick to be played with?  Pugs are for you!!

Think maybe you need to consider it some more?  Please keep reading.  But just be aware, while you do your research and looking, that pugs are really not for everyone.  We love our little puggies.  We like to dress them up and have them be "cute" -- but they are an immense amount of work and care, and are **not** hypoallergenic dogs. 

++++++++++++++++++++++++

so many breeders online are just doing the easy cottage home-industry thing to pick up extra money.  Is that going to get any better soon?

Heck no -- because now, more than ever, people are looking for easy money.

The answer is not to legislate ourselves into oblivion.  The answer is to simply talk, *nicely* and engage people in conversation where they might listen.  Not just beat them up.

Yes we have to educate each other too -- but don't think the endless threads that have all ended in acrimoney on here do even one thing to "warn" people not to get badly bred dogs.  People just don't read them.  We might ... but they don't.

That was crystal clear to me in talking to this woman.  She KNEW I was a source.  She KNEW I was an e-mail away (and she emails me ALL the time).  But she really didn't want to learn anything really negative.  She wanted a solution to a particular problem -- and she really didn't want to see a whole lot that would burst that particular bubble.

It's typical.  People might have one or two hot buttons they want to satisfy like 'good with children' or 'hypoallergenic'.  And those tend to be the words that byb's exploit on their websites or advertising.  So someone searches for "pugs good with children"??  Guess whose websites they're going to see FIRST!!!

and only $300 and $210 shipping!  (that phrase will churn in my gut forever!! and they drove TO Georgia to save the $210!!! and get the dog FASTER!)

I'm not trying to hijack this -- because all I've just said applies to doodle breeders and every other highly-advertised designer breed AND every over-bred breed.  Take a look on a pug rescue site and count the puggles!!  Rita says they take an incredible number of puggles in because they are *not* what they are portrayed to be.  Sweet little dogs but most of them with all the potential problems of a pug or a beagle.  Not fewer.

Truer words were never spoken! Nice often does go a long way. One of my co-workers has plans to breed his Catahoula to a Kelpie (she's just a baby right now). So we had a long talk about why he wants to do this. I wasn't negative, just asked him what he hoped to gain by crossing the two breeds. We talked horse breeding as well, and how some critters seem to be very random bred. He's starting to understand that you can just as easily get the negatives of both breeds instead of the best. We also talked about health issues, and the difficulties of some pregnancies.

To his benefit, he knew what traits he thought the cross would produce, but he haden't thought about how he was going to determine which pups might have those traits. Keep the whole litter for a year? Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe he will hesitate before producing a litter.

Your friend might be interested in a Hangin Tree if he wants a working dog that combines the main traits of those two breeds. Although HTs use BCs instead of Kelpies for more consistant working results. And that at least is an actual stable breed with a history now. You can pretty much know now what you are getting when you pick a pup, from the parents - which are HTs, not BCs, Cats, F1s, F2s, etc. I'm cringing because our good family friends have a little Rat Terrier that they are intent on breeding. Reason? So they can introduce the "facts of life" to their little girl in a "convenient" way. I just talk really firmly about how excited I was to find a local vet who does laprascopic surgery so we can have Tully the LGD done in the spring.

     Yes, I talked to him about the Hanging Tree dogs and plan on giving him a couple old copies of the Stockdog magazine. He had heard of the breed, but has never seen one.

     It's frustrating, but one of the things that got him thinking about this kind of breeding is the owner of the male Kelpie.  Apparently this Kelpie is a very aggressive biter(on stock), and he thinks a pup from this dog, out of a Cat would be less aggressive! SAY WHAT!

     The Kelpie owner is one of these people that has a fairly good reputation amongst the local cowboys, but he really doesn't have a clue about what he's doing. Trying to get famous by trying to "reinvent the wheel".

No, no, no no - oh, badness. He really needs to read up a bit and maybe get with some folks who know what's what. If he goes on the internet at all I can give him the contact for a really fun and supportive online group of stockdog owners. It helps to talk to someone totally on the same page with one. also, have him contact this magazine and ask for a copy - tell him to tell Nicole that I sent him to her. She's a good friend of mine (though currently I wouldn't be surprised if I were not on her Christmas card list because I keep promising an article for her and I'm a big slacker ). http://www.stockdogsmagazine.com/ That's the Stockdog Journal - under new management, my buddy Nicole Rhodes, and full of really helpful, down to earth advice and resources. Lots of crosses are made in the stockdog world hoping for this or that, but it's rare that people actually hit on a line that "takes" - and as you say a lot of it is reinventing the wheel because farmers tend not to network in this country. In the UK, it is a small enough place that when a dog was needed desperately, 100 years ago, everyone who had different kinds of dogs all compared notes, picked the dogs they liked best, bred them all together, and we got the Border Collie. Now, via the internet, a lot of people are starting to do that with cattle working dogs. But farmers/ranchers are still pretty isolated - we need to spread the word and work to improve the cattle working stockdog! If we can, I'd predict that in a few human generations we'll see a new American breed of stockdog - probably a gutsy, tough, hard mouthed, slick coated, bob tailed, merle colored Border Collie type.

True, to a point. I was working around a plumber who had a red Pit Bull. He thought the red was some prize effect. And talked about having her bred. He is one of these young types that feels he has to know more than anyone else and if I were to light into him and treat him like an ignoramus, I would have turned him off. Most people get defensive if they think that you think they are idiots or lacking in knowledge. Especially young ones who want so bad to be respected. And older ones who are sure they know everything because they've lived x amount of years.

Instead, in what might amount to camraderie and interest between tradesmen, I talked abuot what I know of breeding, which did turn out to be more than he knows. By introducing these conditions, not as a judgement against him breeding but as requirements that "everyone knows," it gives him a chance to absorb it and it becomes something "he has known all along." And he, as an "expert," may decide not to breed after all. I have a 50 percent chance of him not breeding, which was a better chance than before. It's like cutting the deck when the dealer offers you the choice. In a statistical universe, any control you can have is better than none. And I had to do it in a non-preachy, non-teachy sort of way. I guarantee you, the next person he talks to about it, he will mention what I have said but it will have become his "expertise." And I can live with that. I would rather avoid useless breeding than get creds and kudos. But he is just one in a sea of soi-disant self-styled breeders. In fact, I can count on his arrogance of his "knowledge" to absorb what I said, because he is driven to "excel." Not to mention what I know (just a little) of the costs of breeding, etc.

And I do this when I can, where I can, also mindful that I can inundate someone easily with the amount that I know, which is a fraction of what most people in this forum know. That is, I consider myself semi-literate in dog knowledge here, which is more than a lot of average people. I get a kick out of some people here who claim to be average when they haven't met the people I have. True, we may have many lurkers but within the confines of our forum we do get a preaching to the choir effect and it may be easy to assume that everyone knows what we know. So, yeah, I try to educate and I try present it in a way that is not judgemental or adversarial. Education is the key but first you have to have the person listening to you. This plumber I have mentioned has never heard of this forum and, because of his arrogance, is not likely to attend to it long enough to be turned off by the empassioned posts we have here. So, the situation requires more subtlety.