Mini Border Collies? Is there such a thing?

I thought about pom mix for Trooper, but his personality is NOT pom in any way! He's hyper, he's the type of dog that NEEDS to have a job. He's a herder, and a nipper. And he's super smart. He just doe not act like a pom! Maybe sheltie/aussie? I doubt he'd be a bc mix, since there are not too many mixes down where I am. Lots of aussies popping up all over the place, but the bc's are still pretty well 'controlled'.

erica1989

I thought about pom mix for Trooper, but his personality is NOT pom in any way! He's hyper, he's the type of dog that NEEDS to have a job. He's a herder, and a nipper. And he's super smart. He just doe not act like a pom! Maybe sheltie/aussie? I doubt he'd be a bc mix, since there are not too many mixes down where I am. Lots of aussies popping up all over the place, but the bc's are still pretty well 'controlled'.

I don't think this dog is a Border Collie, but for future reference, there are several breeders and trainers down your way.  There's a huge "Triple Crown" trial series in the winter, too.  And, no less than two Border Collie rescue groups, one in Deland, the other with bases in Orlando and somewhere to the north of there, I forget where.  Two BC specific puppymills are located down there too, one also in Deland and the other we're not sure where, somewhere north of Ocala.

Don't underestimate Poms - they've got a GREAT blend of spitzy prey drive and toy-breed pack drive that really can make them GREAT competitors. There's an obedience judge here in TX that has multiple UDXes on her Poms (I think some of htem are rescues) and a local instructor here in Dallas working on a UDX with HIS Pom- they can really be pretty drivey little dogs!

 Showed the photo to friends last night and consensus was Pom x something bigger.. :P I'll grab a photo of Jasmine (the instructor's Pom) next time I see her, but it may be a while- she's the dog that the petition has been going around about to modify the stays- she got attacked at a show (during the long down) a few weeks ago.
 

I was totally going to say the same thing about Poms!  I have a friend who had a BYB (rescue) Pom who was a wonderful dog, her best dog ever.  She says Harley was the smartest dog she's ever owned, and she's got BCs now.  This dog reminded me a lot of Harley.  

Plus, Shelties are from spitz-y stock too.  A cross to a Pom would create something that looked very spitzlike.  And Shelties definitely come in black bi.

 Toy breeds might shock some people who don't have them!  They can be really intense, energetic dogs!  Not all toy breeds are content to be lap dogs.

 I was just thinking, I knew someone with a tricolor sheltie x papillon that looked a lot like this dog really. Paps are already fairly intense and wicked smart and are often compared to the toy dog version of border collies.  I could totally see that plus the more reserved, herdy sheltie temperament making something that could remind people of a smaller border collie.  My newest pap is a must have work type of dog.  She also has a really intense gaze (My room mates tell me she 'stares too much';) and will stalk small animals almost like a border collie- very low to the ground.  I just tell her she's confused about her breed, lol!

Though, I agree more with sheltie x pom for several reasons (head shape and hair texture for one), but I was just reminded of this sheltie/pap mix...
 

I definitely think sheltie mix, there is alot of black on him though, I'm guessing sheltie x bc...I see where you guys are going with pom, but I would expect a sheltie x pom to be even smaller....no? And I'd say no on aussie too, I don't see anything aussie-ish, especially not the ears and face.

When you mix an extreme physical trait with an average type dog, "averagneess" generally wins out.  So you mix a dog with a bully-style head with a normal type, and you'll get a much more moderate head.  Any random cross, even within a breed, will start reverting to "wild" type ASAP. 

Leonbergers, for instance, are a giant breed, but their size has been carefully cultured over just a few generations compared to other mastiff breeds whose body type has remained stable for as much as a couple thousand years.  Leos have the genetics of these dogs, but they also borrow from less stable gene pools like Newfoundland, and the proto-GSD.  You can breed Maremmas with no thought to size for ten generations and end up with no greater abberration than my Min girl, who is only 75 pounds (my male, bred by me, weighs 150 pounds).  But apparently you can't do the same with Leos.

I can totally see sheltie/pom.  The minimal white, the expression, the way he's sitting - it's all very pom like.  I'll put in another word for the toy breeds - Zhi was such an intense puppy that she lost three homes before she was ten weeks old.  She's a firecracker!  She's not a bit like my BCs though - her needs are totally different.

brookcove

And, no less than two Border Collie rescue groups, one in Deland, the other with bases in Orlando and somewhere to the north of there, I forget where.  Two BC specific puppymills are located down there too, one also in Deland and the other we're not sure where, somewhere north of Ocala.

But none of those places are near me. In fact, I don't even know where Deland is! I'll have to look it up.... Ocala is very north of me, and Orlando is a few hours in. There just are not many BC's in my area, that's a fact. BC's are pretty 'contained' in my area. There are a few more aussies, but not many. And I've only seen a small handful of shelties. I know there's a sheltie rescue somewhere in Tampa that Steve is involved with. I've dealt with many poms, but he just does not strike me as a pom mix.I really have no clue what he is - not that it really matters. He's a really neat dog, but his personality is really hard to describe. The BC pup we have came from a petstore, so I have no doubt there's a bc mill somewhere in the state. She's got some hip issues, so she'll be with us for a while. The two play very similar, and have some of the same intensity traits. We haven't put the two together to play (mostly because of the pups hips) but I bet they'd be so great together.

So... who knows what he is! He's a great little dog, who will make a lucky family very happy - and tired! I'd love to adopt him, but I think he'd be a bit too much for me to balance with my work/school/life schedule!

 She could be a "mini-aussie." It's not a real breed, and folks often cross an Aussie with a Pom to get the size. ETA: Her face says Aussie to me, but the ears are very thick, which could be Pom. Plus, the energy and drive you talked about are consistent with Aussies.

Pit_Pointer_Aussie

 She could be a "mini-aussie." It's not a real breed, and folks often cross an Aussie with a Pom to get the size. ETA: Her face says Aussie to me, but the ears are very thick, which could be Pom. Plus, the energy and drive you talked about are consistent with Aussies.

 Mini-aussies are very much "real" and there are reputable breeders of them (and those breeders don't cross them with other breeds - they are just small Aussies). That said I have seen some BYB mini and toy Aussies that without a doubt were actually mixed breeds - two toy littermates were in my classes and I am positive they were Pap/Aussie crosses. A Pap show person saw them and she thought they were Pap mixes and when the toy Aussies owner's saw her dogs they said "our dog's breeder had that kind of dog too". I have also seen ones which were obvious Aussie/Sheltie crosses, so that could be a very good possibility as well. This dog doesn't look like a purebred but does have a herding dog look to him for sure.

Yep - a friend of mine got a 'mini aussie' from a breeder. He is, in fact, a mini-aussie - no mixed look about him. He's the cutest thing, hyper as can be though, and smart! He's a little merle guy, I'll have to find a picture somewhere.

Ok, so I do not know about anyone else, but I KNOW they DO exist. My baby-girl Fifi is a BC...but a mini. She is about 16 inches tall and has never weighed more than 16lbs soaking wet. She is the cutest and most adorable lil thing. She looks, and acts like a BC when she wants to. She does like to Vegg at times, and loves nothing more than to do that with me when I am reading...on my LAP nonetheless. I swear, she will jump on my lap, get UNDER my lil Boppy (i like to use it to read) and just nestle in there till I am done reading. She is my BFF.

toloveme4ever

Ok, so I do not know about anyone else, but I KNOW they DO exist. My baby-girl Fifi is a BC...but a mini. She is about 16 inches tall and has never weighed more than 16lbs soaking wet. She is the cutest and most adorable lil thing. She looks, and acts like a BC when she wants to. She does like to Vegg at times, and loves nothing more than to do that with me when I am reading...on my LAP nonetheless. I swear, she will jump on my lap, get UNDER my lil Boppy (i like to use it to read) and just nestle in there till I am done reading. She is my BFF.

 

 There can be small BCs for sure but there is not a recognized "mini BC" breed.

yup - I think that's the conclusion we came to.

I think people think to think of BCs bigger than they really are....