This makes me SICK; Boxerdoodle, $1200...

*sigh* I still dont get why they call them hybrids anyways. Isnt a hybrid the mix between two species with infertile offspring? (EX: Liger, Mule, Zorse, ect)

Why not just call them a mixedbreed like they are?

As an owner of Standard Poodles I can tell you that I can "see" both sides of this, but only agree with one.  Does that make sense??  Let me explain.  I can see why someone would want to breed two different breeds to possibly get the unique and wonderful qualities of both. And there's the problem - it's only a possibility and not all that great of one sometimes.  There are expectations of what this wonderful mix is going to look like, and how much money can be made on this "new, unique, totally wonderful" breed of dog.  What happens to the puppy that is sold tp someone as "non-shedding" and he/she sheds?  What happens when the puppies don't look like anything but mutts and the breeder can't sell them?  I ran into a woman with a Labradoodle and I'll tell you what - that dog was the goofiest looking dog I have ever seen.  He's young and I can tell you by looking at him that he has hip problems already.  His coat is awful - truly the worst of both breeds, and he does shed.  The woman obviously loves the dog but is very disappointed and was honest about that.  To be fair, I have seen some gorgeous poodle crosses too, that don't shed and that are wonderfully put together. I've seen some very nice cockapoos and goldendoodles and whatever-doodles.  And loving Standards like I do, I can see why someone would want the qualities they possess.  So....buy a STANDARD!!!

Owning an intact male is an experience.  My boy is only 11 months old and is a silver beige, a color you don't see real often, at least around here.  In my opinion, he is not only unique, but he is gorgeous!    I take him 'out and about' often.  You would not believe how many people want to breed their dog to him.  Why?  Because he "looks so neat" and "his color is so unique" and "I love how his hair feels" and "he looks so happy and like such a nice dog".  It would be comical if it weren't so sad and frustrating.  And they are just totally mystified when I tell them that I don't even know if I will use him for breeding - he is only 11 months old and hasn't had any testing done, etc.  And then I drop the bomb - I won't ever use him for breeding a mixed breed litter.  IF he is used for breeding, it will be a very selective process and only to another Standard Poodle. Why?  Because I love this dog, I love this breed - I want to preserve the wonderful qualities that he has, not dilute them and subtract from them.

I do know several owners of Standards who are caving to what the people want - designer poodle-cross dogs.  They will cross to anything if the price is right.  Reasoning: if someone wants a labradoodle (or whatever) they won't go to the pound anyway.  They'll find what they're specifically looking for.  Perhaps that's true. 

For me, I am hoping that my boy is a good example of the breed, that he shows well,  that test results are good, and that I can use him for breeding.  If not, I will have him neutered.  First and foremost, he is my pet and I love him.  I

 I found this "Boxerdoodle" on google. It's a cute dog, but I still think grage breeding is wrong!

Okay - the picture of the Boxerdoodle perfectly illustrates how I feel about the poodle crosses. This is a cute pup. But it's a mixed breed, a mutt.  There is nothing wrong with mixed breeds - I have owned several and still have one, and they were/are some of my nicest dogs. But to purposely breed them is wrong.  The pounds are full of cute mutts.  And as an owner of Standard Poodles and former owner of a Boxer, what I see is a dog that shows none of the wonderful, unique, distinctive qualities of either breed.

If there weren't hundreds of schnockers already in shelters everywhere in the US, I would have absolutely no problem with a responsible breeder breeding health tested cockers and schnauzers together.  But, this isn't the case.  Why not just go to a shelter and save a dog's life instead of making more of them that could possibly end up in the shelter, as well, because their owners' expectations weren't met (say that someone bought a schnocker from the same litter you did...but this puppy DID shed and had other "not-so-desirable" traits of both breeds.  They decide that they didn't get what they wanted and take the puppy to the shelter..fine example of why this is BAD).  You can really never tell what you're going to get when you breed two different breeds together.  So why take the chance?  Just go to a shelter and you'll know what you're getting!  And you won't be contributing to pet overpopulation. 

 Yes, I agree that there are good mixes in the pound, and I was actually interested in adopting. However, the difficulty there is that you often don't know what breed/mix the dog is, how old it is, where it came from etc. I was also finding that it was sometimes kind of expensive to adopt....which surprised me.

As far as breeding goes... I admit that I'm not an expert at all. However, can't you health test and responsibly breed two different breeds to get a healthy mix?  After all, the breeds we have today did not always exist. They were created by breeding other dogs. I had considered getting a cockapoo, and they seem to be great dogs. That is not what I ended up getting, however. Anyway, I know some are trying to make the cockapoo a breed. What is wrong with something like that? Isn't that like when the breed of miniature schnauzer was created in the 1890's by creating a mix between the standard schnauzer and the affenpinscher? Now that "mix" is considered a purebred dog.
 

thetaylorfamily

the difficulty there is that you often don't know what breed/mix the dog is, how old it is, where it came from etc. I was also finding that it was sometimes kind of expensive to adopt....which surprised me.

Well, i guess if you're getting a mix anyway...it shouldn't really matter what it is, as long as you like the dog, who cares? Still, most rescues/shelters are way cheaper than a breeder of poos, and usually include spay/neuter etc.

The problem with these "designer dogs" is most people aren't trying to make a new breed. It's all about the money. i'm willing to bet most of these "breeders" don't health test...and they sure as heck can't show. I could see trying to make a new breed if the breed had some kind of new purpose that another existing breed couldn't provide, but i just don't see the use in creating new breeds, especially when there are so many in the shelter that want a home.

thetaylorfamily

 Yes, I agree that there are good mixes in the pound, and I was actually interested in adopting. However, the difficulty there is that you often don't know what breed/mix the dog is, how old it is, where it came from etc. I was also finding that it was sometimes kind of expensive to adopt....which surprised me.

As far as breeding goes... I admit that I'm not an expert at all. However, can't you health test and responsibly breed two different breeds to get a healthy mix?  After all, the breeds we have today did not always exist. They were created by breeding other dogs. I had considered getting a cockapoo, and they seem to be great dogs. That is not what I ended up getting, however. Anyway, I know some are trying to make the cockapoo a breed. What is wrong with something like that? Isn't that like when the breed of miniature schnauzer was created in the 1890's by creating a mix between the standard schnauzer and the affenpinscher? Now that "mix" is considered a purebred dog.
 

It's one thing for reputable breeders, who are interested in more than fads and making money, to combine breeds with the express intent of creating a new breed.  However, to be a breed, dogs must breed true, and have a registry that is reputable, and be concerned with things like genetic defects, and heritable disease, and providing lifetime guarantees.  Unfortunately, such people are vastly outnumbered by the ones who simply want to take your Visa card, separate you from three times the amount of cash it's worth, ship you a puppy with a 72 hour health guarantee, and call it a day. 

I agree that this breeder doesn't look reputable but I'm not against crossbreeding in principle.  If people want a  goldenboxshmoorapoo there's nothing wrong with that.  It's not like there aren't bad purebred breeders too and being a purebred doesn't magically make a dog better.   What matters is that the dogs a breeder produces are healthy, raised in good conditions and have good temperaments. Besides new breeds have to start somewhere, and we DO need new breeds because society's needs are changing. Accidental litters will always happen too and if there's a perception out there that purebreds are always better some very good dogs could end up on death row.

Danisman

Accidental litters will always happen too and if there's a perception out there that purebreds are always better some very good dogs could end up on death row.

Oh please. You are preaching to the wrong crowd. I have never seen anyone on this forum even HINT at something like "purebreeds are better". If they ever have, you can bet your butt that kind of speak would be nipped in the bud. I will go as far as to say that most of us have mutts, and probably all of us, or darn near close to all of us, have had mutts in our lives.

The problem is not mixed breeds. The problem is irresponsibly breeding them, just to end up in shelters, or have another dog of the same exact mix killed for space in a shelter.

People who are trying to create new breeds don't breed purebreds over and over. They breed the mixes to each other, but usually not in a 50/50 split. And those breeds usually have a purpose besides "pet", i.e. a faster, better sheep herder, or a smaller, sharper vermin hunter. I have not seen one "hybrid" dog breeder who wasn't using two purebred dogs of different breeds, who was creating a dog for any purpose other than being pets, nor who did real health testing to make sure they're not creating little doomed-to-spend-their-lives-at-the-vet-and-cost-their-owners-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars doggies. THAT's why it's irresponsible, THAT's why you won't see educated people condoning it.

chelsea_b

People who are trying to create new breeds don't breed purebreds over and over. They breed the mixes to each other, but usually not in a 50/50 split. And those breeds usually have a purpose besides "pet", i.e. a faster, better sheep herder, or a smaller, sharper vermin hunter. I have not seen one "hybrid" dog breeder who wasn't using two purebred dogs of different breeds, who was creating a dog for any purpose other than being pets, nor who did real health testing to make sure they're not creating little doomed-to-spend-their-lives-at-the-vet-and-cost-their-owners-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars doggies. THAT's why it's irresponsible, THAT's why you won't see educated people condoning it.

Keep in mind that all this is still new.  It can take many tries for a breeder to get the RIGHT male and female crossbreeds to breed together to create a new breed, and I have heard of cockapoo and goldendoodle breeders with second-generation stock (mixes bred to mixes).

I don't see the point of a boxerdoodle, but there are many "real" breeds I have no use for either. There's no accounting for taste.

Purebred breeders create little doomed-to-spend-their-lives-at-the-vet-and-cost-their-owners-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars doggies too so I'm afraid I don't understand that argument. Most puppy mills are still geared toward creating conventional breeds. I looked at buying a chihuahua and two of the three local breeders I investigated turned out to be puppy mills. If you want to educate people about bad breeders that's great but include ALL of them, not just the cross-breeders.

The reason everyone was talking about mixed breed breeders is because that's what the topic was about.  I agree with you completely that there a many, many, many irresponsible breeders of purebreds out there, and just because they breed purebreds doesn't make them good breeders.  Please don't think we all prefer purebreds, because really its not true.  I have a shelter puppy that we still don't know what he is...and I don't really care.  He is what he is, and I love him, whether he's mixed with pit, boxer, shepherd, or whatever else they guessed him as.  The bottom line is that the majority of these people who mix purebreds together aren't trying to make a new breed.  They're trying to make a buck (and obviously its been working really well for them). 

Yes, there are cockapoo and goldendoodle breeders with second generation stock.  They have to replace their breeding stock with some of their puppies before the original ones get too old to breed, right? 

I have heard of people trying to breed golden/labradoodles for handicapped people that are allergic to the lab/golden coat types, and that's fine.  I think it will take a long time to develop a dog with the lab/golden temperament with the poodle coat that breeds true, but if they're willing to take that on, go for it.  Personally, I think it would be better to just use poodles for those people and selectively breed for the certain temperament they're looking for.  At least you'd know what you were getting.  I do agree with people that breed cockapoos and goldendoodles for money.  That's just cruel when there are thousands of dogs in shelters that could easily be just as good as those dogs that are being bred and sold.  I also don't agree with breeders that breed purebreds that haven't set foot in a conformation or performance ring in their lives and haven't been tested for genetic disorders. 

Working in a vet clinic, I see so many people breeding dogs that really shouldn't be bred.  And people who really shouldn't even have dogs that are breeding them...  It's just really sad to see all these "substandard" dogs being bred, and then have to go to the shelter and euthanize countless dogs every few days.  I'm not saying the dogs being bred aren't wonderful pets (although some of them DO have major behavioral problems that will undoubtedly be passed on to their puppies), but what is the reasoning for breeding the dog?  I just can't seem to find one.   

When you get down to it, if half the breeders in the world disappeared we would still probably have enough dogs. My point is just that excessive greeting is excessive breeding... the breed/cross in question is irrelevant.

I think there should be a law that a companion animal breeding business can't be anyone's primary source of income.  You can hire full-time staff if necessary, but the owner, the person who makes the decisions for the business, shouldn't be relying on it for their livelihood. That would cut down on the number of low-quality dogs as well as dogs in general.

Danisman, I have a chart you might like. I wish I could pass it around to all breeders!

LOVE the chart!