Help with guessing the breed! (image heavy)

nataliem

I always thought that small breeds like say chihuhua and large breeds like great dane are unable to breed with each other (only maybe by artificial insemination) due to the huge size differance.

When I was a teen I was approached by a local rancher who wanted to use my mare to produce a "spectaular pony"   she was almost 18 hands and that is a huge mare, she was Quarter hourse x Thouroughbred smart as a whip ad fast ///whooooboy he had a gorgeous palimono SHETLAND pony...after I stopped laughing I claimed that would simply be impossible!!  He patiently explained it wasn't. They dug a ditch for her and built a ramp for him!!   While I refused he did find another blended mare simular to mine and went ahead with the breeding, the pony was very, very beautiful, smart and fast.

A mentor of mine in Breeding dogs has often said , "where there is a will, there is a way!!"  I would not discount the possiblity of lab, that coat is awesome, so shiny and such a deep black. My very first thought was lab x rat terrier.  The more I looked at the coat the texture isn't right so the Min Pin  x Rat Terrier theory is more likely. What a lucky girl she is and whay a pretty pup you have !

Bonita of Bwana

She's a cutie, that's for sure, and I love the theory of breeder's cropping because they didn't know at first, lol!!  I guess you will never really know for sure.  Min Pin and ? Beagle maybe with those ears and face shape?

i would be willing to bet money that you have a Patterdale...

http://thehuntinglife.com/html/sections/articles/working_terriers/patterdaleterrier.html 

http://www.ptca.00go.com/photo4.html

My guess is that she is a Feist X

 same thing as a patterdale, just depends which side of the ocean. they have breeders and kennels in the US so it wouldnt be too unlikely. either way the nose to the ground while out hiking suggests some strong prey driven blood in there.

DumDog

same thing as a patterdale, just depends which side of the ocean. they have breeders and kennels in the US so it wouldnt be too unlikely. either way the nose to the ground while out hiking suggests some strong prey driven blood in there.

Not quite. UKC recognizes the Patterdale Terrier and the Treeing Feist. PT's have a history in the UK and the Feist was developed in more recent history in the USA. They are most definitely different breeds that developed completely isolated from one another.

but their purposes are still the same and i am willing to bet that some of the same dogs went into the mixture. sure the pat probably has more extinct terrier blood in it than the feist... but  that is still the foundation for many of them. rat terrier and hounds from the UK and europe. they still had the one purpose in mind. and according to http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/mountainfeist.htm the feist has been in the US a lot longer than recent times. longer than the rat terrier anyway.

i still would not rule out either one. but i look at Patterdales all the time in the hunting forum. she looks a LOT like the ones i see there. 

DD...they are different breeds, from different rootstock...developed in different countries. That is ALL I said.

Wow, those pictures almost took my breath away! I had a dog that was identical, except larger by about 20lbs. She was a Lab/Doberman cross and was my heart dog. I know yours couldn't be the same mix as the size difference is too great, but looking at the pictures where you can't see her size, I would bet money that it was my old dog!

She does look like she has min pin in her though. Whatever she is, she is beautiful. 

Thanks guys for all your help and such great info.  Wow, a Patterdale!  I never knew that there was such a breed.  I've not seen them around here.  The hunting dogs around here are mostly Labs and GSPs, no terrier hunters that I know of.  Dumdog do you think that they have Patterdales here in Minnesota or is it just in the south. But wow she sure looks like a Patterdale and from what I read on their website she has the same charater. You are right Dumdog she is veeery prey driven. If she is off leash she will trail and run after anything that moves, even huge White Tailed deer. I've never seen her catch anything yet, except when our cat used to bring dead mice and rabbits in the house and boy does she go crazy for them.  She even groweld at me once when I tried to take away a dead rabbit from her and she never growls at me!  The only thing that doesn't match up with her being a Patterdale, besides the Minnesota factor, is that her ears are a little too big for a Patterdale plus she is not as stocky or have the right muzzle or jowls....... I'm not sure if a Feist looks the same as a Patterdale. I've even though of her having some kind of sighthound mix in her due to the "crazy high speed running for miles" thing.

GordonsGirl, you pup is so adorable and goofy. Ever since you posted Sniper's pics I could not believe how much she reminds me of Martini. That's so interesting that you had a Lab/Dobie cross that looked like Martini. Dobies are one of my favorite breeds, I fell in love with them ever since adopting Martini. I'm planning on having a Dobie as my second dog (some day).....Can you recall if your dog had any rust markings like a Dobie? That's what puzzles me since all the Dobie and Min pin mixes I've seen have some sort of rust markings and Martini has non...

Maybe a Min Pin/Whippet cross?

Whippet pic I found online

Martini looks like she is soaking wet here.

I saw her picture and I thought she had to be a Patterdale. 

Nope, the dobe/lab mix I had didn't have a single rust marking on her. Her father was full lab, mother was a black/rust dobie, and she was completely black. She did have reddish tinted legs, but no real markings like her mother. She was an incredible dog, I will try and find some pictures to post. I also owned a full bred Doberman afterwards, and they are the most awesome dogs, completely loyal, goofy at home, protective and so loving. You just fall in love with the breed once you've had the pleasure of owning one! I'd love to have one now, but our home insurance doesn't allow it. Thank you for the compliments on Sniper, they do look alike! Your girl is such a cutie pie! 

 i think you could find them anywhere, but doesnt mean there is necessarily a breeder in your state. just in the brief search i did a moment ago they are ranging from coast to coast with breeders in California, Texas, Florida, Tennessee, and West VA. plus Germany and the UK. but thats only what i found online. there are a lot more that are local and just breeding working dogs and giving or selling those pups to people who want a real earth dog without all the AKC hype.

i was also thinking there might be some sort of sight hound in her too. but she has a similar physique as the little pit bull stray we were taking care of last year. nothing but muscle and ALWAYS on the move and into stuff.. always bringing up dead things to play with.... ran like lightening too lol

Feist or Cur mix - probly indirect from Stephen's cur line, as they are black or black/white and lighter boned than OMCs.

The expressive face and the triangle, semi-floppy ears scream cur dog, as does the streamlining and muscles. The size and head are right, plus the docking and dewclaw removal. Although it depends where the dog was found - curs/feists are geeeenerally a southeast US thing. They are also ENERGY ENERGY ENERGY!! :) as small hunting dogs.