Wondering about pits and dog aggression...

 The problem that I see is that with dogs of this breed and type (my Dogo is very similar in many ways) is that you can teach them what is acceptable, you can socialize them and get them accustomed to as many scenarios as possible but in the end you will still have a dog that has the potential to act if put into the wrong situation. If another dog behaves in an aggressive manner yours will be more apt to attempt to “set him straight” so to speak than your average lab or golden retriever will.

 A lot of how it turns out will depend upon the individual personality of the dog in question. If it is a stronger willed puppy with a dominant personality then your potential for issues is greater than with a weaker willed individual of a more submissive nature.

 I do not think there is any way to be 100% certain of what you are getting with any dog but your chances of getting a dog with zero dog aggression will be higher if you avoid the breed and stick to others that are not known for these issues. I guess the easiest way to decide is to ask yourself this question. If I get a pit bull or a pit bull mix, and I socialize it and train it and do everything in my power to prevent dog aggression and I end up with a dog aggressive dog am I willing to do what it takes to keep the dog or will I have to give the dog up?

chelsea_b

Basically I'm trying to figure out if you get a pit bull or pit mix puppy at 2-3 months old, and socialize the bejesus out of them, what're the odds of them developing dog-aggression later on?

I don't think anyone can speculate on the odds to be honest but I think it is fair to say the odds are greater than most breeds. Because we see the breed as persecuted our hearts are naturally pulled to wanting to rescue/save them. IMO it is a mistake to take on a dog hoping for the best possible outcome. You should pray for the best but be 100% committed to dealing with the worst, if that's how it ends up. This goes not only for pitties but for any breed. Most people describe Aussies at 'not for everybody'. They have some personality traits that can be very problematic. For the most part proper training and socialization can all but eliminate these behaviours - but you never know.

It is my opinion that anyone who wants a pit bull needs to purchase that dog from a reputable breeder.  If you get a dog breed that has the propensity toward aggression from a shelter, you don't know its background, parentage, etc. so you have nothing to base a decision on.  The dog you choose from a shelter could have been bred by two fighters, was the runt of the litter and then given up because it won't make any money.  However, if you purchase from a reputable breeder, your odds are much better of getting a loving dog. 

 This is not saying that I think you should not get a shelter dog, all dogs need love and a forever home, I am just stating my opinion about DA dogs.

myminpins

 

It is my opinion that anyone who wants a pit bull needs to purchase that dog from a reputable breeder.
 

I agree! 

I really don't know what to say on this.  I have been lucky, so far, with my pits.  Now Brownie has a more dominate personality and she will get a little grumpy if a strange dog growls at her but she has never once tried to hurt another dog.  She will just growl a little and leave the other dog alone.  Dipstick is more submissive.   All I know to tell you is just take your time on picking out a dog.  Don't grab the first one you see.  Get to know the dog a little before you decide to adopt it. 

dgriego

If I get a pit bull or a pit bull mix, and I socialize it and train it and do everything in my power to prevent dog aggression and I end up with a dog aggressive dog am I willing to do what it takes to keep the dog or will I have to give the dog up?

The only possible way I would give it up is if I absolutely could not make it work with Cherokee. I can deal with dog-aggression, I have experience with that from Cherokee, I just don't WANT to deal with it again if it's avoidable. I want my second dog to be the kind of dog I can take everywhere with me. Cherokee, as much as I love her and wouldn't trade her for ANYTHING, she's just not that dog. I can't take her places without it being thought out and managed. I can't do an agility class with her, or just take her into a beach town with me to walk around (she's also aggressive towards humans though). Most pit bulls probably aren't that dog either, but I know some of them are. I just don't want to exclude an entire breed and all mixes of that breed (which make up a HUGE percentage of the shelter dogs around here) from my puppy search if it's not necessary. I still haven't decided if it's necessary. Thanks for the input.

chelsea_b

 I want my second dog to be the kind of dog I can take everywhere with me.

If this is what you want, then personally I think getting a pit bull puppy is too much of a risk. Dog agression IS genetic in this breed. With great socialization you can cut down on the risk, but it is still substantial.

Actually, there are quite a few breeds you should avoid if you want the kind of dog you can take everywhere with you. Other breeds have DA problems too. Some breeds are wary of strangers, and I think you should be looking at a dog that is at least somewhat outgoing, and likes people and other dogs.

samshine

Some breeds are wary of strangers, and I think you should be looking at a dog that is at least somewhat outgoing, and likes people and other dogs

I agree. My issue is the pit I live with IS the kind of dog who can go everywhere, so I look at him and think if I could find another pit bull just like him, I'd be golden. But he may not be a typical pit bull, so I probably shouldn't think of him as one.

I would LOVE to get, say, a golden retriever puppy, but the fact is they don't show up in shelters very often (rescues a little more often, but most rescues around here require you to own your house, and I don't), and I refuse to buy from a breeder while so many sit in shelters. I'd get an adult dog if it weren't for Cherokee, but that's not an option with her, so I'll just continue to wait for my perfect pup to show up at the perfect time... I'll let you all know if that ever happens.

samshine

chelsea_b

 I want my second dog to be the kind of dog I can take everywhere with me.

If this is what you want, then personally I think getting a pit bull puppy is too much of a risk. Dog agression IS genetic in this breed. With great socialization you can cut down on the risk, but it is still substantial.

Actually, there are quite a few breeds you should avoid if you want the kind of dog you can take everywhere with you. Other breeds have DA problems too. Some breeds are wary of strangers, and I think you should be looking at a dog that is at least somewhat outgoing, and likes people and other dogs.

i am going to respectfully disagree with all of the above. gameness is a genetic trait.... the target may or may not be a dog, or a cat, or a cow, or a pig, or a parakeet. i've been around enough pits and pit mixes and bully mixes to know from personal experience. dont care what scientists say. there is no gene that is labeled and is or is not missing in the dog DNA that says "DA" or "Not DA" ... its just silly to think that way.

and i disagree that a pit bull is a poor choice for a "Go Everywhere" kinda dog. on the contrary.. a pit bull from a GOOD/GREAT/AMAZING breeder would NOT be a risk. they used to go everywhere with people.... look at them throughout history. in the films, and in the homes of the rich and famous. there are plenty of documents and breed traits that say they are happy go lucky and friendly to strangers.

But i do agree that it would be a gamble to get a shelter pit and expect it to be a social butterfly. Doesnt mean it wont be... but you wont know for sure until there is an incidence.. personally i wouldnt want to chance it....

if you are looking to adopt then i would go with a dog that has a known history... but that wont be conducive with getting a young dog compatible with Cherokee... though it wouldnt hurt to try... introducing them and seeing what will happen.

Just a few things to consider,  with Breed Specific laws threatening all of our pets, how does your town / state and even dwelling feel about Pits?

Would there be a place to return the pup should your plan not work out?  In many communities they are PTS just because, and no amount of defending them will stay that deadline.

Do you have a great yard for this pup for when you aren't together?  do you realize many insurance companies will not cover your home if you have a pit?  I am not saying they are right,  just take all of this into your planning for your new baby.

I HATE it when I see a pretty and happy pit puppy come to little league or soccer and watch as the owners tell people to stay away they want the pup to grow up mean. I also know it is not uncommon here in the South for ignorant jerks to feed them gun powder to assure aggression and guts.  They are a breed that is often bred in back yards for aggression so it would be tricky to assure it would not come out as the pup grew up, not impossible just tricky.  There are soooo many down here I cringe when the news blares a headline about a dog attack and child mauling sadly it's almost always a Pit, and in the past couple of years the death toll for victims has been shocking. Be very careful and think with both your heart and your HEAD on this one. It would be horrible to lose a dog because of any of the reasons I mentioned. Great question!

Bonita of Bwana

 Most APBTs have some level of dog aggression.  Some can be okay around other dogs and animals under close supervision, and some can't at all. 

 If you do adopt from a shelter go with an older Pit, that way you know what your getting.  With a puppy you never know if it will grow up and be too D.A for you. 

Honestly though, if you want a dog that you know will get along with other dogs 100%, an APBT isn't for you.  I got Chill to be my friend not to be another dogs friend. 

 
Here are some links for you to look at....

http://www.workingpitbull.com/index.htm

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/

I don't own a pit but work with them in the rescue. I'm a fond believer of early socialization & training from day one. I think the NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) method is wonderful for all dogs, but especially the more powerful breeds. Its easy to say "go to a reputable breeder" but its VERY hard to find truely, reputable breeders. I see so many who are breeding them to be bigger, or wider, or just larger heads..etc. I think rescueing a pup would be fine, but perhaps more risky unless you know the background. I wouldn't want to own an ex fighter, fighters puppies(recent), or a bait dog of any breed especially a pittie.

 Honestly, with a shelter pitty pup especially, it is going to be a gamble.  As you likely know, our first dog Sally is a pit/pit mix.  She is what my trainer calls "dog selective"--she loves some dogs, dislikes others (in a "I want to dominate you" way, not an "I want to eat you" way), and it all really depends on the actions of the other dog.  We got her at a year old so I do not know what her life was like before that or how well she was socialized (although considering she was not housebroken, was afraid of the leash, knew no commands, and was very shy I can imagine), so I cannot say if it would have been different with more socialization at critical periods.

When we decided to get a second dog, I decided against another pit partially because of the DA issues (the other, larger reason had to do with looking towards the future and BSL).  I knew what Sally's issues were and I had a good idea of how to deal with them, but I did not want to have to deal with the potential of having a second dog that became highly dog aggressive despite efforts to make him otherwise.  I just wanted a more socially laid back dog, and that's why we decided on a lab.  I was seriously considering getting a shelter lab puppy but we have had incidences of some really poorly bred labs with nasty temperaments around here, so we went with a good breeder. 

If you definitely do not want to deal with dog aggression, do not adopt a pit.  IMHO, it's as simple as that.  Sure, there is a chance that you could socialize heavily and it could be smooth sailing and the dog could be great with other dogs, but there is also a good chance that you could do everything right and still have to deal with dog aggression issues.  That is just something that a potential pit owner has to have in the back of their mind.

Also, I got the impression from your other posts that you do not own your own home, but live with a relative (if I'm wrong correct me).  If the next place you move to is a rental, having a pit will most likely present a problem.  We were renting at the time we got Sally, and by the grace of God had a landlord that would allow her, otherwise I would have never been able to keep her.  She is actually why we decided to buy a house as quickly as we did--for the security of at least not being at the mercy of a landlord.  If we had not has her we would have likely rented a bit longer a saved up for a place on some land or something.

sillysally

She is what my trainer calls "dog selective"--she loves some dogs, dislikes others (in a "I want to dominate you" way, not an "I want to eat you" way), and it all really depends on the actions of the other dog.  We got her at a year old so I do not know what her life was like before that or how well she was socialized (although considering she was not housebroken, was afraid of the leash, knew no commands, and was very shy I can imagine), so I cannot say if it would have been different with more socialization at critical periods.

When we decided to get a second dog, I decided against another pit partially because of the DA issues (the other, larger reason had to do with looking towards the future and BSL).

This is our story with Rosco to a T, except he was adopted at 4 months old. Even at that age, he missed the critical period before 16 weeks. He is a breed ambassador, and my trainer wants him to go to Clicker Expo in 2008, so a really good pit bull boy. However, he will never be a go everywhere dog. Whenever we have him out in public we have to worry about the DA. You know the drill here.

I'd suggest getting a different breed, from a good breeder, so you have more info/controls in place to ensure the right match with Cherokee.