Need breed information/suggestions

I think most of the breeds that you listed are known for their intelligence...especially GSD, dobe, and belgians. One thing i noticed is the variation in energy levels. Brittanys, springers, gsds, belgians, and dobes all have A LOT of energy. I'm not necessarily saying that you're a beginner, but i would suggest a belgian (more so a mal)  to a person that has a lot of dog experience.

**Edited to add, I used paragraph breaks, but they aren't showing up. Sorry this post is hard to read... how were you able to use double spacing?** Since you planning on showing too, that involves other considerations. Show considerations From my understanding, German Shepherds and Dobermans are VERY competitive and political in the show circle. And from what I've seen, Dobermans more than almost any other breeders are extremely selective about who they will sell a dog to. It's definitely not to early to contact a breeder and try to find the right one. The more conviction you have to learning about the breed, choosing the right breeder and the length of time you're willing to wait will give you major brownie points. That would also give you contact and help you get to the "in circle" if you choose a breeder with a good repuation. Otherwise it's going to be very hard to win in those political breeds. The Swedish Vallhund I'm thinking you would have to find rare breed shows. Grooming considerations (These are just my opinions and may vary slightly from people with direct experience with those breeds) *High maintance- Mini and Standard Poodle. Probably 8-10 hours a week and there's a lot of expertise that goes along with it, trimming the patterns, hand scissoring, blow drying techniques, hair spraying, daily wrapping of their hair, etc. *Medium maintenance- German Shepherds, Brittanys, Welsh Springer Spaniel, the Belgian breeds, and Shelties (with the Sheltie being probably the most labor intensive of the group) *Medium/low- Schipperkes, Corgis *Low maintainance- Dobermans and Boston Terriers. Unless you're extremely committed and interested in learning grooming, It'd start with one of the low or medium maintance breeds. Temperament considerations You probably already know this, but German Shepherds can be very protective with a high prey drive. Same is true for the Belgian breeds and Doberman. They also need a lot of mental stimulation and exercise. I'd say they require more commitment on the part of the owner than most breeds. And as you know, Shelties can be very barky and they also need a lot of mental stimulation/exercise. I think Schipperkes and Corgis are similar in those respects. Other than that I don't know a lot about them. Brittanys and Welsh Springers are obviously sporting dogs, so they're usually going to have more retrieving instincts and a bit "softer" personality. I think they need a moderate amount of exercise. Obedience and showing would definitely qualify as a "job" for the breeds that need one. Bostons are the one I know the most about since I've considered them for myself. I think they make great first time show dogs since they have an almost no maintance coat and also great obedience dogs since they're usually smart and eager to please.

Malinois and Dutch Shepherds were my favorite, but I went with a well bred, well tempered German Shepherd for "starters."  No regrets!!!  Personally, if you are already committed to at least 3 years of research, I think you might be able to handle ANY breed!!  

Now I may be talking out of my ass b/c I've never shown a dog, but I'm inclined to think that if you got a popular breed like a GSD (this goes along with what Tamara is saying), you will want to show UKC for starters.  In my experience of attending dog shows and having a dog who is a finished champion and nearly finished grand champion, the UKC show ring is a lot less competitive, more accepting of variety as far as GSDs (my dog would NEVER EVER EVER get anywhere AKC), and it's far more common to have newbies and owner-handlers.  For example, the last AKC show I went to, I think every person handling in the group rings were professional handlers.  The last UKC show I went to, there were guys wearing ripped jeans and stained t-shirts showing their family pet (magnificent dog nonetheless) in the group rings.  As far as GSDs, the UKC seemed far more appreciative of working lines and working structure.

I think it is too early to suggest any breed of dog.  You're going to experience a LOT of life changes between now and when you start doing your post college job.  Somethings depend greatly on what you choose to do after college - grad school + job, "just" grad school, or work?  Some jobs expect you to put in 10-12 hours a day, other jobs are good with 8.  And you'll have drive time and you'll want a social life.  You will probably also be living in an appartment, or looking for one, so you may be limited in the size of dog you can have.  Sorry to be such a damper, so

Having said all that, I agree with what earlier posters have said.  If you really want to do an owner-handled conformation dog, I'd stay away from Poodles, Dobes and GSD's.  Of the breeds left, Shelties will be a very competitive ring, but you might be able to do an owner-handled dog of really good quality, but you will also need to brace the ears on a puppy and the grooming requirements will be more than the others left on the list.  Given the appartment probablity, I'd choose the Sheltie, Vallhound, maybe Welsh SS, Boston, Schip, maybe the German Pincher.  Of that list, based on ease of trainablity, I'd skip the Schip and probably the Welsh SS.  Which narrows the list to 4 breeds. 

Thanks so much to everyone for their input so far. =D It's really appreciated.

 

(Luvntzus; I typed it out in word, and then pasted it in, and it kept the breaks. I was using firefox, dunno if that has anything to do with the paragraph breaks.) 

 

RidgebackGermansShep; we have two GSDs, and I'm pretty much the only one that takes them for walks any more. My mom doesn't have a very good connection with Patriot (he has absolutely no respect for her, and honestly, she isn't interested in working with him any, so...) and my dad's ankle has an old sport injury that suddenly got way worse, and he can't walk hardly at all. So, with them I have no problems keeping up with their exercise. I'm not the only one that does stuff with them though, everyone takes turns feeding them and playing games with them. (I really hope that didn't come off as totally rude and defensive, I just meant that I like energetic dogs. I need them to get me out the door. If they don't want to go out, I won't, y'know?) And like I said, I really appreciate your input, and I am taking it to heart.

 

Luvntzus; (I find that very hard to type for some reason.) I didn't find keeping Charlie brushed out difficult at all, so based on your list, I'm thinking that the medium maintenance dogs would be okay. I brush the shepherds out at least twice a week too, and that's no biggie. I'm pretty sure I won't end up getting a poodle, they're more a breed I'd like to admire from afar, but I really like their personalities, so I more put them up as an example of the kind of dogs I really like. =] As for the barking of Shelties, I kinda liked it. Charlie would bark whenever someone jumped into the pool, like she was alerting the world that someone was drowning (we joked that she thought she was Lassie-- original, I know.)

 

Liesje; I'd been thinking about that (and talked to my dad about it; he did obedience with our last shepherd, Cory) and he said if I want to show in conformation, I ought to go with a breed that has medium popularity. (Which goes along with what you guys are saying too). I kinda am thinking I probably won't be getting a GSD. I love ours, and they're the best fit for my dad, I'm not sure that they're the best for me. I really loved my Sheltie, Charlie. I'd never heard that about the UKC, how interesting. That's really good to know, actually. Thanks.

 

 agilebasenji;  After I finish college (and I haven't decided what that means yet, although I'm probably going to go for more than just my BS) I'm going to live at home for 6-12 months after I get a job, and then I'm going to get a house. Unless my plans go horribly astray, I won't be going to an apartment. I wasn't planning on getting a puppy until I was sure about getting a house and all. (I know it probably seems like I can't say this with certainty, but I feel confident enough: I won't ever live in an apartment. Until I can get a house, I'll live with my parents.)

 

Basically, I'm not going to get a puppy if there's a chance of an apartment coming into the picture. =] I probably should have put a wider window of time. My bad.

 

The advice about the competitiveness of the rings is really helpful, too, though, and about the trainability. Thanks. =D 

 

 

lol, you sound like me. I grew up with shelties and a GSD x.  Wonderful dogs.  Though I'm thinking my next breed I'm going to be adventurous and try something very new and more independant.  (coughsighthoundcough)

All the stories I have are of my grandfather's boston terriers.  They were a hoot, but a very different personality than the herders.  And they can JUMP really high.

 ETA:  If you're ever interested in a toy dog (ex: apartment size restrictions which DO happen a lot unfortunately), papillons are incredibly trainable and you can owner handle them okay.  It's not too terribly competitive though we usually have a ton of specials. 

 Of your list, I'd probably pick a terv... 

Look for a breed that has a high number of owner handlers.  Once you have narrowed down the choices, , get a subscription (or switch annually) or check out the availability of past issues of the National Breed Club magazine/newletter.  That will have more information than most other dog publications (that is breed specific).  Get on breed specific email lists.  Many of the dogs you listed require considerable training and socialization, join a dog club and start hanging around.  Chances are the dogs you are interested in will show up.  Start going to dog shows and hang around the ring the dogs are being shown.  Ask for permission to talk to folks AFTER showing is over.

 Also, the list you have is apples to oranges to mushrooms to green beans.  Many of those dogs are sooooo different in their approach to life, health problems to address, and potential for BSL.   Your current idea to look and learn is a really good one.  If you narrow it down, consider working for rescue in the breed selected.  You will get first hand knowledge of how good and bad it may get.  You will also make contacts that will help you find the right breed breeder when the time comes.  ( you dont have to foster to get connected in rescue:  I "id", evaluate (dogs and homes) and transport.

I don't know what everyone else thinks about these, but I like the dog breed selector tests on the Internet. If you Google "Dog breed selector", there will be lots of tests you can take to see what breed best suits your needs and desires. If you take a few of them, you might get a good idea of a good dog for you.

They also might clue you in to some options you're not considering or make you aware of some considerations you hadn't thought of.

Even though I knew I wanted GSDs, I took them anyway and GSDs came up for me.  

<< I'm pretty sure I won't end up getting a poodle, they're more a breed I'd like to admire from afar, but I really like their personalities, so I more put them up as an example of the kind of dogs I really like. =] >>

 

Have you looked at the Portugese Water Dogs?   The ones I've met haven't been quite a goofy as the Std poodles, but they are similiar.  And I think you could probably do owner-handler on them. 

As far as the apartment, I just don't know anyone who skipped that step.  Great for you!  I love my parents dearly, but I really, really wanted to be out on my own and would not have waited to have enough $$ for a downpayment on a house.  But that's me.

 

 

 

 

 This is my favourite breed selector: http://www.glowdog.com/bestdog/

My mother has a Swedish Vallhund and a Pembroke Corgi was my first dog (they look so cute together, you have no idea!). As far as the Vallhund goes, Pyry is a poorly bred Vallhund, but he's very vocal and very smart. He's quite food driven, but has a streak of indepedence that means he often wanders off on his own. I find him considerably harder than my corgi, Penny, but he's not so hard I wouldn't have one. In fact, I probably will have one at some stage. Pyry is such a little man and I've got a real soft spot for him, even though he can be a pain in the neck, especially when he gets barking. He has some health problems relating to skin and yeast infections, but I suspect this is entirely due to his poor breeding. I couldn't fault his temperament. He's sound around people and dogs and loves kids even though he's never had much to do with them. He also likes a cuddle every now and then, which is really sweet. He's confident and laid back and lots of fun.

Penny has been the best first dog I could wish for. She's always been very easy and very responsive. She's super clued into what's going on around her. She's not cuddly so much as sooky and prefers to lie next to me. She's more alert than Pyry and easier to train. Pyry needs convincing sometimes, but Penny has always been eager to learn and eager to please. Most of her training I've done with praise alone.

The big problem with corgis and the reason why I'll never have another is that they are prone to both back problems and bowel blockages, both of which Penny has suffered through repeatedly. She has a degenerate disk in her back, even though she's a very light, small corgi with a shorter back than the show quality corgis I see now. It troubles her going up and down stairs or hills and she was just lucky it wasn't worse. It is a problem that can lead to paralysis and cost thousands of dollars and months of rehabilitation to fix in the worst cases. I don't know how common it is, but both Penny's vets were unsurprised by it. When I was picking dogs, I knew about potential back problems, but didn't really think beyond being aware that it could happen. I guess I didn't really believe it could. It was a terrible enough experience to have a dog in excruciating pain that I don't think I could ever face that possibility again by getting another corgi, despite what great little dogs they are. Vallhunds have no such issues. I've also had to be on the ball with bowel blockages. Penny has been to the vets over at least 3 bowel blockages in her life. 2 were caused by raw bones in her diet and one by a cooked bone someone threw over the fence to her. Bowel blockages I can deal with, but it's another thing to consider, as you could be looking at more trips to the vet with a corgi than most of those other breeds. Again, Vallhunds don't seem to be prone to the same bowel troubles. 

A lot of the problems with corgis *are* genetic- but at least here in the US, well-bred corgis from health-tested parents tend to be quite long-lived and healthy. There is a *risk* of back problems, but as long as dogs are kept lean, it's not usually an excessive one.

 

 Uh huh, a risk. Seems like nothing to worry about when you haven't seen it for yourself. But, like I said, my corgi has a relatively shorter back and she also has relatively longer legs than the show quality corgies I've been seeing. She's also quite small, fit and trim. She had a period in her life when she was overweight, but for most of her life she's been at a good weight. She's not 'well bred', but she's a robust little thing and I think if it's genes that cause degenerate disks, then it can't be an easy thing to avoid because the genes typically aren't expressed until later years. And if it's to do soley with the length of the back and the shortness of the legs, which my vets seemed to think, then it could easily happen to any corgi.

It was heart-breaking when Penny hurt her back. I would not willingly put myself through that again, even for a corgi. So a risk is a risk and one I'm not prepared to take. I'd hate for someone else to get into the breed without fair warning of that. If people think they can live with that risk, then so be it. But just don't do what I did and put the blinkers on and the "it wouldn't happen to my corgi, not if I'm careful" mindset in place. It's a very unpleasant experience if it does happen, and you'd want to be sure you're prepared for it if you're going to get into the breed.

 That's just my 2 cents.

I've seen it, but it's almost always been injury related- a bigger dog running into them, as happened recently to your Penny, falling off a deck, and in one case, getting kicked by a horse.

Your Penny is very nicely proportioned but does have a somewhat longer loin than I like to see on a corgi. Will post a big long post about this at some point with illustrations but am wandering off topic from the original thread.   
 

if you are going to get into breed ring, i gotta say that some of the nicest people i have met in the conformation world have been the corgi people. corgis can be wonderfully competetive in obedience, as well as other sports, they do tend to be barkers though. corgis have got a ton of personality and a sense of humor. they also will outsmart you if given half a chance.