Thoughts on these two breeds: Basenji and Akita Inu?

agilebasenji

There are several breeders listed on the BCOA website in OR (www.basenji.org and look under "breeder directory";), but I don't know any of these people personally.  But I will say I've seen pics of Kelele on the Samburu website and there's just something about that little girl!  She's almost as cute as my Zpuppy and that's saying something.   Of course you may also want to look into WA breeders or northern CA breeders.  Meet them and their dogs, see if the basenji lifestyle is something you might be interested in.  I certainly wouldn't discount the basenji breed based on what you've said.  As long as you realize they are NOT off-leash dogs.  And, esepcially given wet cold weather, a basenji would probably be happier inside when you're not home.  But they do just fine in a crate.

Great info!  The more I look into Basenjis, the more I love them   I'm definitely leaning towards them now.  I'll talk to some breeders, as well as read some more on the Internet.
 

I would definitely not recommend an Akita for your situation, but if you're prepared to deal with the challenged of owning a "harder" breed (i.e. one who learns differently then your "typical lab";) then I'd definitely recommend the Basenji. I've always wanted to own one but I know that I would run out of patience, so I just admire them from afar. Best of luck with whatever you choose! 

 I'm a hopeless spitz lover as well. I spent months researching both those breeds, and I'd still love to own both at some point. I decided they weren't compatible with my current family, though (elderly corgi with bad back and house rabbits).

I understand basenjis can be mightily destructive when they put their minds to it. When I signed off on them for the time being, I still wasn't convinced one would be okay left alone in my house. I heard a lot of horror stories about the damage a bored basenji can do.

Akitas in this country are uncommon and I don't know any breeders who were even aware of health problems in the breed. I spoke to many and it never really came up except to watch for bloat. All the breeders I spoke to also did health testing.

In the end, I've settled on a rare (outside of Finland) spitz breed that has all the things I like about spitzes, but will also fit in with my lifestyle and be very dog and small pet friendly. I've now met a few and they are really sweet dogs, but not nearly as independent as basenjis and akitas.

 Finnish Lapphunds are spectacular to look at, and very cuddly. About the size of a small husky, and they come in some really gorgeous colours.

My mother has a Swedish Vallhund, which is also a spitz breed. He's scary smart, but small and manageable. He's not very active, but I'm not sure if that's normal, as he's really poorly bred. They come with full tails, flags, and natural bobs. Here's a picture:

 Out of the two you've mentioned, I'd actually be more inclined to get an Akita if I were you. I met some really nice ones during my breed researching, and all the breeders I spoke to said Akitas would take as little or as much exercise as you cared to give them and could learn pretty much anything you cared to teach them, as long as you've got plenty of food to reward with. I think you have to be very careful in getting one from a good breeder and socialising and all the rest, but I suspect a lot of the reputation Akitas have as being difficult stems from the fact that they are very large and confident and independent thinkers. I like that in a dog.
 

TBBucs

Basenjis seem nice because they are small with short hair, thus easier to groom.  A bit temperamental and independent though from what I've read.  Akita Inus apparently are much lower maintainence in terms of excersize, and they love to protect their owners and follow them around, but are a bit iffy around new people.

Thoughts about either of these breeds?

 

My family had an Akita- one of the American type-not an actual Japanese type Akita Inu.  There is a big difference both in type and in temperment.   I do not recommend one of these dogs to anyone that doesn't have a good understanding of dog behavior.  They are stubborn, can be aggressive, they are independent- both in thought and in action.  When you combine that with their size, power and intelligence- an inexperienced owner can quickly become overwhelmed.

If he's active it won't matter that he goes to work, I have mals and work full time.  Lots of people do.  

 Akitas are kind of like mals...but more.  They can be pretty hard to live with, this coming from a mal person.  I've been around several and I can't say they're a dog I'd choose to live with. They're, in general, fairly aloof and quite dominant and intolerant to handling.  I don't like that. 

If you're into Spitz type dogs, there are always the sammys--they're barky and a lot of hair but you can have them clipped (NOT shaved) to a more reasonable length.  They're really nice dogs.  There's also Shiba Inus, they're very naughty dogs, stubborn and independent, but they're kind of fun. Basenjis are like the Shibas in a lot of ways except they're maybe a little more affectionate. 

Most of the spitz breeds are hard to live with for the same reasons.  They're dominant, they like to run, and they need something to keep them busy or they get into mischief that can be pretty costly.  Sometimes the amount of damage they cause in a short time is just downright amazing.  Many come from an environment where only the tough survived and given they aren't quite as domestic in the modern sense (family dogs kept mostly in the house, normal pets).  Keep that in mind while looking at them.  Most of them you have to be disciplined enough to not allow them to walk all over you, same as the people in your house. 
 

It doesn't have to be Golden Retriever friendly, but hopefully it's a dog that people can be comfortable around. 

Definitely not an Akita. Akitas are...unusual dogs, for the reasons many people have listed. Honestly, I feel like the extremety of their personality is really not being stressed enough here. Most Akitas WILL hunt and kill cats and small animals. Most Akitas WILL see small dogs as prey and develop some level of dog aggression. Most Akitas WILL be very guardy dogs, to the extreme. Most Akitas WILL bite under the right circumstances, and the right circumstances for them can be something very mild. Most Akitas ARE very intelligent, frighteningly intelligent, and capable of some mental leaps that many other dogs are not. At the same time, they are incredibly independant- so you end up with a dog who THINKS he is smarter than you, and will listen when he feels like it.

 Respect, with Akitas, is an absolute must- but at the same time, they will not respond to harsh training methods. Mine will not respond to ANY traditional training methods at all. Mine responds well to clicker training because then everything seems like it was HIS idea. Anything else and he just shuts down and ignores me.

Akitas can be wonderful dogs in the right hands. In the wrong hands they can be frightening. I learned this first hand- I have a two year old rescued Akita who after a move (as Gina posted, Akitas don't respond well to changes in environment) attacked one of my other dogs, abandoned all of his training, and killed a cat, several chickens, and tore some of my cages apart to kill some of my pet rats. It has been a LONG hard road to get him back to where he was, we still have a long way to go, and quite honestly, I don't feel that I will ever be able to trust him again.

Akitas are not dogs for beginners. Even if you have dog experience, Akitas are a primitive breed and are just plain not like other dogs. I thought I was prepared to handle an Akita when I adopted Ogre- turns out, I wasn't. If you do decide on an Akita, I reccomend you find an experienced Akita person and spend ALOT of time with the breed beforehand. I didn't understand the gravity of getting a dog of this breed when I got him, and as much as I love Ogre, I will never have another Akita again.

All I can say is, don't make the same mistake I did. All of the reading and research in the world will not replace actual experience with this breed. Akitas can be the best dogs ever, or they can be the worst. Without alot of prior knowledge, it's very easy for them to become the worst- it all depends on the owner.

If you do decide on an Akita, please just make sure you know what you're getting into first.  

Ratsicles

Akitas are not dogs for beginners. Even if you have dog experience, Akitas are a primitive breed and are just plain not like other dogs.

That's exactly what I was saying.  Well put.

If you're interested in Akitas, find a breeder and meet the dogs.  Go to shows and meet them.  Find out the best and the worst before you put a deposit down on a puppy.

Ratsicles

Most Akitas ARE very intelligent, frighteningly intelligent, and capable of some mental leaps that many other dogs are not. At the same time, they are incredibly independant- so you end up with a dog who THINKS he is smarter than you, and will listen when he feels like it.

Well put!  They can be quite calculating.  Similar to the mals he was considering:  unlike a lot of breeds who are taught a skill or learn it on their own and will do it pretty much just on command, these dogs can apply that knowledge to serve their own purposes.  Ok, sit and down are pretty benign, but  when you teach them things like turn off the light, go in the fridge and get me a drink, or they learn how to unzip a purse, you may find yourself in the dark if they want you to go to bed, you may find your fridge cleaned out, or like my friends, when you're camping the dog may unzip the tent and go for a run in the woods in the night setting the other dogs free as well.  One of my mals systematically tests a crate door, finds the week spot, then bulldozes it with everything she has.  Other times she has escaped a crate leaving the door locked--this particular crate was welded everywhere but the door which was tiny.  I equate them a little to the raptors in Jurassic Park, LOL!  They observe, learn, and then use it to suit themselves.  Whoever said animals don't think never lived with these kinds of dogs.....

<< I equate them a little to the raptors in Jurassic Park, LOL!  They observe, learn, and then use it to suit themselves.  Whoever said animals don't think never lived with these kinds of dogs.....>>

That's what I've been saying about basenjis for years.  I don't call them badsenjis for nothing!  And a lot of  what Ratsicles said about Akitas also applies to basenjis, but we're talking about all that in a 25-30 pound dog.  Just based on the size, I'd think basenjis would be easier to deal with than Akitas.  Same sex aggression is common in basenjis.  Right now, I have 4 dogs (3 badsenjis and a malinois) and I'm running 3 packs which is a pita.  Hopefully when Zpuppy is finished with being in season I can go back to having 4 dogs in the same room together, but it's possible it won't happen.  My boyz are older (10.5 and 9.5) and they've lived together almost their entire lives (I got one at 7 mos, one at 10mos), so I have that in my favor.  AND, hopefully I'll only have to deal with this once a year, since once a year heat cycles are the norm for basenjis.  (One of the nice things about having one of the most primitive dogs around)

 Of course if you wanted 2 dogs, I'd suggest opposite sexes and usually you won't have a problem.  Usually.  My brindlewonderkid (20+ titles to his name) has more prey drive than I know what to do with.  I'd love to have a rabbit, but I know if I did, the rabbit would eventually be killed.  I can't imagine having rabbits, *** pigs, rats, ferrets, etc and having basenjis.  Once they learned where those animals were kept (and it would only take once), the small animals would not be safe.  I have NO recall on him if he's chasing.  NONE.  It's not that he's not trained, he has a list of titles in many different venues to prove he is, that prey drive is just overwhelming.  But, I accept that and I love my breed on their terms.  Which is the only way to do it with a primitive breed. 

Having said all that, if the OP is up to that sort of lifestyle challange, basenjis are wonderful curious, whimsical, magical creatures.  And certainly make wonderful pets for the right sort of  person.  (a basenji-slave type person)   IF you find the right rescue dog or the right breeder.  That point cannot be emphasized enough.  I'd also suggest the OP look at Shiba's.  They weren't in the AKC when I started with basenjis, otherwise, who knows, I might be agileshiba instead.  (Okay, maybe not, but I really am enchanted with the shibas)

I really like Shibas. They're pretty, and brimming with mischief, and in my experience, they can be really lovely dogs on top. They can be a bit aloof, but I think not as much as an Akita. To me, they're like a mini Akita that's slightly more friendly. 

A shiba person once told me, upon learning I had basenjis, that shibas were just basenjis in drag. 

powderhound

I equate them a little to the raptors in Jurassic Park, LOL!  They observe, learn, and then use it to suit themselves.  Whoever said animals don't think never lived with these kinds of dogs.....

 And if you think Akitas are brilliant, you'll be floored by the things that PHs learn...and how quickly they apply them.  I swear that these dogs could be taught to read.  Akitas are the same.  They figure out what works in one situation and they WILL find ways to adapt those successes to other situations. 

ETA:  Agilebasenji:  you crack me up with your honesty.  It seems that the majority of these primitive dogs have some very similar characteristics in intelligence, and a self-serving attitude.  Scary to think that we're owned by them, isn't it? 

 My mother's Swedish Vallhund is like that, too. I understand they are also a very old breed. He's the kind of dog that if you try to distract him with something he likes, he gets this look in his eye and makes that extra jump where he says to himself "Huh, so barking at the back fence made food appear all the way up at the house? Well, let's just test this little theory..." and he wanders down to the fence, keeping an eye on the house, and stands there and quite deliberately barks at nothing. If you produce food for Penny, she's well and truly distracted until there's no longer any hope of any more coming her way, and by then she's forgotten all about whatever it was she was doing beforehand.

The Vallhund has a memory a mile long and knows all the consequences of everything he chooses to do. Which makes him prone to learning things you don't want him to learn and trying out all sorts of things you'd rather he didn't do. He learnt that the bbq plate is good to lick as long as you wait for it to cool enough to walk on. He tests it very carefully before he walks out there. Of course, he also knows you can get out of the yard any time you feel like it if you dedicate yourself to digging for a few minutes. I'm glad that he's both small and people oriented.

In reading through the posts, I am quite suprised by the comments on Akitas. Yes, Akitas are very intelligent and aloof. And yes, I agree that only experienced dog owners should consider an Akita. However, I must provide an alternative characterization. When shopping for an Akita, it is important to interview a reputable breeder, one who considers physical traits as well as temperment. The Akita should also be within the size and weight standard for the breed. It is a fact, that these breeds are used for dog fighting so I would lean towards a smaller Akita. Given that you have selected your Akita from a reputable breeder, if you follow the basics of training and socializing, the Akita will be a wonderful addition to your family. From personal experience, my Akita was NOT difficult to train. He had mastered the all of the basic commands by three months of age, stay, sit, down, heel, leave it, settle, etc. He was also very obedient. However, by nature Akitas are territorial. Therefore, I can not stress enough how important it is to socialize not only Akitas, but all breeds. A pet owner must be in control of thier pet at all times, regardless of the breed. Of course when you have a very powerful breed like an Akita, there is more risk involved should the owner lose control over their pet. My Akita did not show any signs of agression towards people or children. However, he would hunt small animals if given the opportunity. I did not socialize him with other small animals and if I had I believe he would've accepted them as well. Akitas are loyal and loving family members. They do not ask for much, limited grooming and limited exerercise. I'd like to describe a few memorable stories and traits of my Akita, Kato. Hopefully through these stories, others will learn what a truely exceptional breed they are.

At about two years of age, Kato met his first infant. She was on the couch in a baby rocking type chair. Great-Grandma was sitting next to the infant and pushing the rocker while Kato laid at her feet. We all went into the dining room for dinner. When we finished dinner and returned to the living room, Kato was sitting next to the baby and gently nudging her rocker with his nose! Does that sound like a dog who is aggressive towards small children?

When Kato was ten, my husband suprised me with a tiny 7 week old Yorkie for my birthday. Before this, Kato had always been an only child. Kato and Miss Precious, the Yorkie,  were inseperable. The Yorkie would cuddle right next to him. Even when they played, he did not once accidently step on her or hurt her in any way. He was so very gentle with her. I did not have to train Kato to treat her in this fashion. It came natual to him.

Yes, my Akita was a Hudini with no fear. He learned to open the door, open the fridge, climb fallen trees, and so much more. Of course I made some mistakes, with my Akita. We lived in a 2 story with a walk-out basement. One day, the satellite dish was not working. My husband climbed out the bedroom window and up to the peak of the house to work on it. He asked me to bring him a few tools. I left the window open (this was my mistake). When I returned with the tools, and climbed out the window and onto the roof, to my horror, I saw Kato walking along the peak of the roof! I knew the trip down would be much harder than the trip up, and I was very afraid that he would fall. But he listened to my commands and we made it safely into the house. I didn't make that mistake again.

Kato did not demand attention from anyone, but he drew it like a magnet! Akitas are gorgeous dogs. Where ever we took Kato, people and children were always drawn to him. He always sat and politely and let everyone pet him. One day we took him to a street fair. It was quite bright out and my husband, to my dismay, decided that Kato needed sunglasses. Kato obliged him, even though I'm sure he was embarrassed, and wore the sun glasses all day.  Even Akitas will oblige their owners when they ask ridiculous things of their pets!

There are so many stories I could tell about my loyal, loving, gentle giant, but the bottom line is, an Akita is a wonderful breed. If you would like to hear more stories or find out more about Kato, I would be happy to share.

Akita's are wonderful dogs. I had one when I was younger, he was the best. You have to be able to prove that your in charge though.