"--doodle" question - just curious

ORIGINAL: Seth Ruffer
Have your lawyers contact mine.

what is that about?
i would like you to tell me the benefits of a doodle dog over a standard poodle?  or what your doodle has over a labrador?
i am not saying that any mix can not be a great dog but they should not be bred.  it is a money game and anyone telling you different is not a responsible breeder.
what kind of health guarantee do you have or did you get with your dog?  were both parents ofa certified?   are your breeders breeding two high quality breed standard dogs to make this "designer" dog?  i doubt a highly prized bitch it being bred to a well know stud of a different breed. 
i am an advocate of responsible breeders and imo someone breeding out of the breed standard is not responsible.  that includes dogs that are too small, too large have the wrong shaped head or ears that hang to low. 

in the animal world there are too many animals being bred just because.  i have horses too... well bred horses for what i want them to do.. but the market is flooded with well bred horses.  too many horses that make great geldings but lousy studs... too many mares that should never have been a broodmare...

again i am glad you are happy with your dog.  but i will stand by my statement a responsible breeder will not breed below the breed standard.  go to a dog show and see for yourself what stick out to you as a good example of the breed.  you can pick the winners too...
 
edited to correct a spelling error

Glenmar--
 
That is really an extraordinary story.  Please don't misunderstand me, but the fact that they couldn't sell the pups and the fact that you couldn't identify their backgrounds really makes me question the "breeder."
 
If we are having this long discussion about people who have labs and walk up the street to their friends house where there's a poodle and say "hey, let's make a labradoodle, we can make tons of money" yes, my feeling, probably like your own, is that there is no room on earth for such types.
 
But that is true with any breed, any animal, for that matter, and I doubt anyone would argue.
 
But I don't think that's what we're talking about.  If it is, then I am in complete agreement with everyone else here.

the local shelter where i volunteered for years just took in 3 left over golden doodles and 1 labradoodle from a breeder who could not place them...
it is so sad to be bringing more pets that should not have been bred into this world.  to me a byb is not any different than a puppy mill breeding for none of the right reasons...

I agree why don't you enlighten us to what your mutt has over a poodle??? how is it better than a lab, and non-shededing doesn't count?

I would like you to tell me why your cross breed is sooooo much better that its parents?

And as someone has already stated the AKC will not regester any breed that is made up of only 2 breeds.(in another thread) therefore they are not a breed they are cross breeds or mutts

ORIGINAL: heidandseek

the local shelter where i volunteered for years just took in 3 left over golden doodles and 1 labradoodle from a breeder who could not place them...
it is so sad to be bringing more pets that should not have been bred into this world.  to me a byb is not any different than a puppy mill breeding for none of the right reasons...

 
Hmmm.  Do you have the name of the breeder? 
 
It is extremely rare in the current market for a responsible Goldendoodle or Labradoodle breeder to be unable to place pups.  I am not saying it doesn't happen--though this would be a first for me.  The demand for these dogs is so high I know of breeders who have waiting lists of over a year.
 
So it sounds to me like there's a possibility that these poor pups were bred by exactly the type people I was talking about above--some clown has a lab and knows someone with a poodle and they read in their Sunday Newspaper supplement that people are paying lots of money for this new-fangled thing called a "labradoodle" and they decide to jump right in.  And two years and a few sales later they're "labradoodle breeders."
 
Those types of "breeders" should be permanently closed down.  This is not a breed issue, or even a breeding issue--it's a matter of a bunch of lowlifes who'd be selling whatever they could to make a buck.
 
And there's not a responsible labradoodle breeder on earth who approves, condones or benefits from the like.
 
And frankly I think you know that.
 
There are excellent, responsible labradoodle breeders, and anyone who is even semi-literate should have no trouble finding them.
 
I don't believe Heidi's example pertains to them.
 

removing  threads about my deceased granddaughter due to a pm I received.

ORIGINAL: inne
I guess the difference is that you (and many others, of course) think that the goal of improving the breed makes the pet quality dogs produced by such breeders a non-issue. I don't necessarily agree - it's something that I'm still thinking about.

 
Im sorry if this has been said but I havent read through all the posts. TRUE good breeders whos only goal is to improve breed standard will still produce pet quality pups. The ideal breeder will still produce quality pups. Why? because you can only shape the pups to a certain degree. Lets pretend the perfect Lhasa Apso existed (meeting the standard to the letter) and the perfect Lhasa bitch also existed. By breeding these two you are not guaranteed to have 100% show quality puppies. At least one or two will be pet quality and we have no control over that.
 
This doesnt mean that the breeder is unethical. What makes these 'doodle' and 'pet quality' breeders unethical is that they are breeding a.) mutts and b.) dogs who do not meet the standards. We have purebreds for a reason and if mutt and pet quality breeders keep doing what theyre doing whats the point of purebreds? Lets just all breed our dogs to some other cute dog and hope for the best.
 
Maybe I can breed Lizzie to Xerxes and call it a Colph Hound. What do you say Xerxes? []

First, if I understand some of the "anti-Doodle" arguments, a big point is why buy these dogs?  What's their purpose?

It's not so much about what's their purpose, as it is why purposefully breed mutts!  And for the record, I am owned by 4 "mutts" and I wouldn't trade any of them for the world!  Guess what, I got them all at the shelter.

This isn't about your dog and your love of your dog, this is about supporting the purposeful breeding of mutts.  If people continue to buy "designer dogs" at whatever price, from people doing this on purpose, we can never get them to stop if we don't educate the public.  I do this in the agility classes I hold.  I talk about "designer dogs" when it comes up.  Do I turn them away?  No.  It's a dog and I will support anyone with their dog, however I will try to educate for future acquistions.  This is what people here are trying to do.

Your dog could be a fluke in his temperment, or he could be the prime example.  But this happens in all breeds, all across the world.  Responsible breeders try to breed for this every time.  Every one of us, whether purebred or mutt, think our dogs are the best and wouldn't trade them for anything.  That doesn't mean that I'm going to look for a beagle lab cross from a breeder.  I might try a shelter if I want that though. 

 I would like to have my next dog be a purebred and I'm looking at a Novia Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever.  Why?  Because I will get what I'm looking for.  A smallish dog, that likes to work (I do agility) and has a gorgeous coat.  I'm willing to pay purebred prices to get the working dog that I want.  However, if I just want a companion, any shelter dog will be maleable to that desire.  Some of my current dogs also compete in agility and they do fine.  And I could probably get a shelter dog that would do fine as well, but I'd like to raise from a puppy, a dog with known working drive.  One of my dogs does not haev this, and while she's had limited success at agility, she will not go far because the drive is not there.  With a NSDTR, I know I will get the drive I'm looking for because I will buy from a responsible breeder with titles on their dogs in fields related to agility.

ORIGINAL: Seth Ruffer
I'm troubled by the insinuation, though, that there's something wrong with spending money on a pet, or on anything else, for that matter, and perhaps it's my own complex to work out, but I don't think it's appropriate.

 
Theres nothing wrong with spending thousands on your pet! Ive reached the 1k mark with Liz quite a while ago. But I would have NEVER paid 1,500 dollars for her. I preffered to get her from a nice small breeder who doesnt charge an arm and a leg for her dogs. With the rest of the money I bought her a crate, food lots of toys and so many things. I know I will spend WAY more than 5k on Lizzie before she is gone, but hey i'd gladly spend triple that money on her well being than spend half that much on initial cost. Its just not right, no matter how much money you have

I would spend $1,000 or more on a Doberman pup whose parents, grandparents, great-grandparents had the appropriate health testing done and passed with flying colors. There are so many health issues in this breed...a good pedigree is critical. And even then you are not guarenteed you won't lose your dog to Cardio. []

I too will spend upwards of 1500 or more on my next dog, But it will come from the lines I like, it will come form 5star bouvs meaning the breeding stock has had all of the health tests done, it will have a 5 year heath guarentee. It will have come from proven working and showing lines, I will know what to expect from her as an adult, at what age she will most likely mature, how he coat will grow in, all of which is important. I want my dog to be a well adjusted trainable dog. These are things one can only get with a purebred dog.

What health guarentee did your mutt come with? How long and what was it covered for? What is the expected lifespan of this dog? You see the same things you got with your mutt I can get from any shelter, plus a free spay of neuter, as all mutts should be and vaccinations.

i wish that seth would answer my questions.    i am very interested in his answers....

Hey, Darla--
 
First, I'm very sorry about your horrific loss.  I can't begin to imagine what you must have gone through.
 
We lost my mom last year after a five-year bout with cancer--the suffering the last six months was terrible, but unlike you, at least we had a chance to say goodbye and stroke her hair and be with her.  Again, I'm very sorry.
 
I had to run yesterday afternoon for a business trip--hope to be back in NY tonight, and I promise to respond to you--and everyone--either tonight or, more likely, tomorrow--but I'm just swamped right now (and it's only 6 am in LA!!!)
 
OK--sorry for the delay, but I gotta pay the bills!!
 
Regards,
 
Seth

Seth: Just to comment, I dont believe that you could show us any responsible Lab/Poodle MIX breeders. Not even one. They can do all the health testing and guarantees they wish but the person who intentionally breeds mixed breeds is not a responsible breeder. It doesnt matter how good they look they are not in this to 'create' a new breed because as stated many many times the AKC will not register a dog with only two breeds, so why do they do it? To make money!
 
Why do you call these breeders responsible when they are intentionally creating mixed breed dogs who have no actual purpose for the dogs, and no actual 'job' for them? Every purebred today was bred with a specific task in mind. Yes even the Shih Tzu or the 'ugly' Pug as you stated. From herding to lap dog they were all bred with a purpose. Why are these Poodle mixes being created? To be pets! There are dozens or purebreds or homeless mutts that would be great pets if given the chance!
 
If you were to spend a day in the streets of Puerto Rico (and I dont mean the 5 star hotels and nice beaches) you would NEVER again applaud the intentional breeding of mutts. Everywhere you go there are dozens and dozens of dogs on the streets. Why? because someone thought 'hey these two dogs are cute, we could probably sell the pups for lots!' and when they realized that they couldnt they dumped them on the nearest street corner to fend for themselves.
 
Now how can you applaud such breedings when there are so many dogs in the streets and in shelters?

thank you seth i am very sorry for you loss as well.  it is hard to lose someone even when you have time to say goodbyes.  and thank you for not reading more into my post.  i do not want to argue with you but i do want to debate   looking forward to hearing from you