Wolf Dog Hybrids

Normally I wouldn't argue with a person not willing to give an educated response,but in the interest of helping others understand why I would choose to accept this animal into my home,I will oblige you this one last time.

Your solution for the most part is to put to sleep all  WD's in existance.Or do you have another idea you are holding back.

Anyone who knows my stand on the subject knows I am more ANTI WD breeding than pro.

Mine ,and the WD rescue people I know ,sacrifice a lot to keep these animals.It is not a status thing.We get these animals BECAUSE of people who get them as status symbols and cannot provide for them a healthy and happy existance.We also need to keep the dogs identity a secret,because of the misconceptions that people spread about them.

The training methods you yourself use are completely contradictory to ANY WD trainers,Books,or wolf behaviourists I have ever read or spoken with.The wolf and dog are not so far seperated that positive training methods and NILF won't work for both.

These dogs can have a healthy and happy life WITH THE RIGHT HOME.People who want one,really need to ask themselves if they can provide that,and be prepared to live with the descision of the RESCUE ORGANIZATION(not breeder)as to whether they can provide the home needed.

None of the sites you posted are new to me.Maybe you could see it in yourself to look at some reading on the other side of the debate and keep an open mind on the subject of ownership..There is plenty out there.

Your solution for the most part is to put to sleep all WD's in existance.Or do you have another idea you are holding back.

Anyone who knows my stand on the subject knows I am more ANTI WD breeding than pro.

I have no plan to get a hybrid as a pet and I do not think other people should. Wolves should have left alone in the wild unfortunately there are some stupid people who think they are managable. They were too beautiful and they decided to destory what nature has created for  them to live in. This is what makes humans being a very evil creature. I truly feel sorry those wolves who got into someone's backyard and mess around with.

There are too many uneducated people out there who do not know how to handle animals like that.  I have met biologists who work with wolves at santurcy told me that they do not make a good pet. They need a special diet, and they have a strict heirarchy. It is not something humans should mess around with. Why mess around with them? Thats why I put a very simple reason to tell the person not to get wolf. Some people provide a good reason to why they should not be a pet. I have no reason to repeat what they have said already.

I have a lot of respect for animals who live on their own in the wild and they DO NOT depend us to find food/ protection/whatever. Why take that away from them?  Why do people need to bother them? Just like people who boycott puppymills and refuse to buy their products or animals. I'm doing the same thing I would not buy any wolf/dog mixture into my house ever. There will be no reason why I will put a dog/wolf mix down. I assure you I never will bring one to my house. No reason why I plan to put them down.

If no one buys a hybrid dog/wolf, then they will disappear. They will be no longer part of the BYB profit.

What MhadDog says is true.  He is not promoting the breeding of hybrids specifically for pets, however he is not condemning those hybrids that have been born to death either. 

Just as he believes, so do I, that there are certain individuals that have the patience, the knowledge, and the resources to train, maintain and keep these animals as well behaved companions.  The other options are to put them down or to put them into a shelter.

Wolves are better off in the wild, wolf-dogs not so much.  They have enough dog in them that they're probably not fearful of humans-and in a 110lb hungry animal, that is NOT a good thing.  Just imagine taking your trash out and being "confronted" by one or more of these dogs.  Or imagine letting your dogs out for that evening romp in the back yard and the wolf-dog lures your dogs into chasing him-right smack dab into a wolf pack ambush.  They're that smart, and they're that powerful that not many dogs would stand a chance.

Wolf dogs can be healthy pets under the right circumstances, just as Mhaddog said.  Those circumstances are rare, but when they are present they are a godsend for the hybrids.

C'mon, guys, don't let personal grudges carry over from thread to thread []

You guys are saying the same thing:

[quote="MhadDog"]People who want one,really need to ask themselves if they can provide that,and be prepared to live with the descision of the RESCUE ORGANIZATION(not breeder)as to whether they can provide the home needed.


Translation: don't buy a wolf-dog from a breeder. If you are 100% sure you can handle one, get one from a rescue. If the rescue thinks you can't handle one, then you have to respect their decision and not pursue one further.

[quote="Cane Corso"]I would not buy any wolf/dog mixture into my house ever... If no one buys a hybrid dog/wolf, then they will disappear. They will be no longer part of the BYB profit.

Translation: don't buy a wolf-dog from a breeder.

Hopefully the OP gets the idea! []

ORIGINAL: Cita

C'mon, guys, don't let personal grudges carry over from thread to thread []

You guys are saying the same thing:

[quote="MhadDog"]People who want one,really need to ask themselves if they can provide that,and be prepared to live with the descision of the RESCUE ORGANIZATION(not breeder)as to whether they can provide the home needed.

Translation: don't buy a wolf-dog from a breeder. If you are 100% sure you can handle one, get one from a rescue. If the rescue thinks you can't handle one, then you have to respect their decision and not pursue one further.

[quote="Cane Corso"]I would not buy any wolf/dog mixture into my house ever... If no one buys a hybrid dog/wolf, then they will disappear. They will be no longer part of the BYB profit.

Translation: don't buy a wolf-dog from a breeder.

Hopefully the OP gets the idea! []






yep, Supply and Demand is very important to breeders.. any breeder. Most good breeders wont breed their dogs if there is no one showing interest. if no one shows interest in them, if they find them too pricey, too high maintenance, etc. then the other option is to keep all the dogs. Not a bad idea if you have the space, but what if your dog has 12 puppies? Would a breeder have THAT much time and THAT much space? or more importantly.. that much patience to properly train them all?
So my theory is, like Cita said, if there is no interest then people who breed wolf dogs will be faced with the above questions. I'm not familiar on litter sizes with wolf dogs. i know wolves tend to have small litters in the wild, but once you introduce dog blood you can increase the litter size by quite a bit. and tending to more than 7 puppies, training, socialising, etc. is going to get tricky.
I think that is why there are so many wolf dog rescues. Not only are people biting off more than they can chew when they buy a wolf dog, but the breeders dont always sell all the puppies and they cant keep them all themselves. its expensive to get them all fixed, and if you dont get them fixed then you have issues with hormones and fighting. and you may STILL have fights over territory and status. Its just easier to take the unwanted wolf dogs to a rescue.

I only know of one wolf sanctuary in my state, there may be more, but this one is the closest to me. They allow visitors, but they do NOT allow adoptions. This is a permanent home for the wolves, because.... think about a wolf's behaviour.... they are pack animals, many of them will live and die in the same pack their whole lives. if you uproot them and move them from one new home to another then they become unstable and insecure. They dont know where they belong, where there is a safe place so they are bound to act out and cause someone harm.
SO,,,, in saying that... IF you do adopt a wolf dog... BE CAREFUL!!! you dont know what hes been through, or how much stress he can take. wolves dont handle stress well. if they dont freeze out of fear, then they will attack out of fear....


also, about breaking up a dog fight.... that was my grandmother's coyodogs worst problem. she was an old dog and she was used to being alpha. but it was just her and one other dog, a male rotti mix. Lady would constantly try to pick fights with our other two dogs, my moms collie and my bulldog. life got very complicated in the end because we had to lock one dog up in the laundry room, then bring the other dog into the house and put her in the bedroom and shut the door, then let the other dog out of the house.... this routine happened several times a day, potty time and feeding time and play time. Lady just could not tolerate not being top dog but she was too old to handle a fight, and getting in the middle of a fight trying to break them up was like swimming with crocodiles....

I have known 3 wolf hybrids (actually one of them was 1/4 wolf and the other 2 were half wolf).  Two of them were fine.  One of them is everything they warn you that a wolf hybrid could be.  She is not house trained, will do anything to escape and will run off if she does get loose, is VERY, VERY skittish around strangers, and she is very aggressive.  She is the only dog that I am truely REALLY afraid of.  I stopped visiting the friend who owns her because it just got to the point where I had no doubt she would attack me if she got the chance.

some friend, eh? thats a shame too.

...AS A MATTER OF FACT IF YOU WATCH CRUFTS DOG SHOW
ON ANIMAL PLANET NEXT MONTH PEOPLE SHOW THE SAARLOOSE WOLFHOUND ITS IN THE PASTORAL GROUP
WHICH IS ANOTHER NAME FOR THE HERDING GROUP

 
Could you please let us know where you found the information about Saarloose Wolfhounds being shown at Crufts?  I wasn't able to find any listing of them on the Crufts Results page.  [linkhttp://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/]http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/[/link]

Didn't find any either...lol. I think it's safest to say...some wolfhybrids are Saarloos Wolfdogs...but not all hybrids are Saarloos....lol!
Esp considering the wolf here and in Europe is a different (sub)species with a completely different look and size, and possibly even behavior.

Well, saarloos wolfhounds and Czech wolfdogs are both recent breeds of dog.  I think they're both FCI, but I'm not really sure.  They were both created by various crosses of dogs back to wolves but have been standardized or are being standardized.  The wolf hybrids I am talking about are generally just random crosses of nordic breeds or GSDs to wolves and wolf crosses. (usually north american gray wolves)  They vary a lot in looks and behaviors and content.  Some 'Wolf hybrids' have no wolf in them whatsoever and are a money making scam.  Around here it seems many 'wolfdogs' don't even have wolf in them.

Saarloos wolfhounds and Czech wolfdogs are both breeds that need a very experienced owner as well. 

EDIT:  The Saarloos is FCI Group 1 Section 11.  Breed founded in the 1920s.  German shepherd x eurasian Wolf.  He was trying to improve on the German Shepherd but the breed did not turn out the way he had hoped it would. 

the Czech is FCI Group 1 Section 1.  Bred in the 1950s.  German Shepherd x Carpathian Wolf.  Supposedly less shy than the Saarloos.

The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog is also in the AKC FSS.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles
Didn't find any either...lol. I think it's safest to say...some wolfhybrids are Saarloos Wolfdogs...but not all hybrids are Saarloos....lol!
Esp considering the wolf here and in Europe is a different (sub)species with a completely different look and size, and possibly even behavior.

 
Gina, I was going to post the same thing about not all wolfhybrids being Saarloos Wolfdogs.    You're right on the mark about the difference in wolf temperments/personalities- my understanding from the sites I've read about the Saarloos Wolfdogs is that the European wolf has more of a softer personality then the wolves here in the States. 

not sure what you mean...you could post a link to a wiki page if you'd like us to look? Emailing...members here? Well first they'd need to be set up to receive emails from the forum. You can PM members...tho it's polite to ask first, of course.

I have not read the whole thread but I do own a 50% wolf mix and wanted to mention a few things.

First of all, there ARE very reputable hybrid breeders. They are very stringent about who they sell a pup to and require you to have an extremely good facility, proper licensing,etc before they will sell you a pup.

2nd of all, WOLFS ARE NOT DOGS, and the general rules do not apply. You NEVER EVER wait to get a wolf hybrid until 8-12 wks of age. All reputable wolf hybrid breeders recommend 6 weeks at the latest, preferably 4 wks because they have very special bonding and socialization issues. If you wait till 12 wks, the animal will never bond properly and that is not a myth, that is a pretty well proven fact amongst high contents.

Be aware, that many people SAY they are selling wolf dogs when actually they are selling husky crosses...do your research and make sure the animal you are getting is what they claim he is.

I will not discourage a person from getting one IF they do their research and are SURE they can handle the breed.

Here's a few things you need to know:

6-8ft fence is a must preferably with electric fence at top and concrete runner at bottom. Anything else and they will be out and gone in a flash. I cannot tell you how many times Lestat escaped before we figured this out.

They have aggression issues...they will bond with you for life, but if they don't know you, they will attack you in a heartbeat because they are scared of humans by nature. This goes double ditto for small children who look a lot like a prey animal to a wolf based on the childs size, noise, quick movements etc. Never ever let them be near a small child for any reason.

They will never take to strangers...taking this dog with you to Petsmart isn't going to work once he's a year or two old. They simply are scared death of strangers and they will BITE.

They have EXTREME dog aggression. They will literally kill any small animal (dog, cat, bird, etc) that gets in their area.

They are extremely territorial. Don't expect visitors to be able to come in and out of your yard without you there because it's not going to happen.

You have to feed them something like Evo or a raw diet...they're protein requirements are extremely different from a normal dog and they will get sick on most kibbles.

Don't try to make them a house dog...they hate being in the house with a passion.

You need to check the laws where you live...they are legal in TX and there are vets here who will treat them, but that is not the case in many states.

All that said, owning a wolf hybrid can be very fulfilling. I have had Lestat since I was 12 and he is an incredible animal. However, had I known what I was getting into ahead of time, I wouldn't have bought him and I don't think I'd ever buy another.

Also as others said, there are tons of these animals in rescues needing good homes. That is a much better option and also less expensive...I have never seen a high quality wolf hybrid for sale at a cheap price...most are in the $1500-$3000 range.

Kodo,

Another thing that ought to be mentioned is the actual percentage of wolf heritage.It may be near impossibe(unless you do know the lineage of the dog)do know just how much wolf is in the mix.

Because of this,their temperments can very widely.

I am not sure about the bonding issue after 6-12 weeks..Instead I believe that is is possible to establish a bond,but the work involved will be much longer and "harder".I do VERY MUCH agree that the earlier you were to get one,the better off you will be,especailly with the higher content behaviour charachteristics.

Also,I am in contact with different rescues who have house packs of 3 or more WD who are the most well behaved dogs you will ever see.All ranging in age from young to older adult.I have been to these houses and mingled with these house packs,and never felt threatened at all.They were very docile.The only danger was maybe having my face kicked off..lol..I attribute this behaviour to the wonderful people who have spent thier lives rehabilitating these dogs.One house we visit has 3 cats and two toy breed dogs that live with the house pack.All in peace in harmony.

Also,aside from the large fence,you should also have the means to erect another fence around the first,and at a distance of no less than 6 feet.This is to keep outsiders away from your dog.I would think this would be good advice for any large breed dog.Just look atthe animals at your local zoo.There is as much attemp to keep the people away from the animal,as there is the animal away from the people.


The cost of a WD ,were you to buy one,should be only a fraction of the containment costs.

For the most part,most general discussion of WD's seem limited to high percentage dogs.People need also know that there are lower content WD's that may not be as wolfy as their HC brothers..There are no Absolute behaviours in these dogs..

I have a wolf hybrid of my own --- He's only 8 months now (50%) and hasn't matured yet so some of his behaviors might change but honestly I don't think anything dire will take a turn for the worst. First I'll set some things straight --- They make great pets. No matter what any other BS people give you. I know some people with full grown (done maturing) hybrids that are really just amazing. It really depends on your hybrids personality. It's not true that they are completely independent --- Again this is a personality things. Fable (my hybrid) came into our family at 2 months and he could not be more attached to. If he could he would glue himself to my leg. So we're actually working with some separation anxiety issues right now. He's fine when crated (took a while) but if he's left out of his crate with other people (including my parents) or if go into a store and a friend is holding him he completely loses it. Cries like bloody murder. But we're working on it. But he was attached since the day I got him. He's good with dogs. He doesn't want to play with all of them -- he chooses who he likes and doesn't pay much attention to the others. But yes it is true that by nature they are a bit skittish and nervous naturally. He doesn't really love being touched my strangers and backs up sometimes when they try to -- or just completely ignores them and lets them. We go to the dog park 5 times a week and although he does play with some dogs for the most part he really just sticks close and sits with me. He doesn't really like getting too far from me. He's been off leash and he's fine because he follows me around like a duckling. His prey drive has kicked in and he's in to little creatures now and wanting to catch them but it's not something that can't be controlled with some training. And no they are not impossible to train. They are very very intelligent animals --- You just need to understand that they aren't like dogs. So you have to respect them and train them accordingly. Mine will always listen better to me if I sternly say no and ignore him then if I yell at him. He's very smart though and masters tricks like, paw, play dead, kiss what not -- in the matter of a couple minutes. And potty training took only a week. Really it depends on personality again (not content). You're of course going to have a harder time with a more dominant personality. And i read somewhere that they don't do good with small dogs? Not entirely true. If they are socialized among them at a young age they'll do fine. I would trust fable around a chihuahua or a maltese mainly because of his size. And he doesn't entirely understand that he can't play with them the same. Although if they are tough any sized dog can put mine in to place. He is a bit of a wuss though. But he's fine around dogs the size of cairn terriers and what not and they're pretty small. Actually he goes to daycare and one of the guys that works at his daycare was the dog park and he told me that most of the time they stick him in the room with all the little dogs since he's more mellow than most big dogs. But again this is a personality thing. But they really are a handful. They've very smart so they get in to more tricky situations than normal dogs. They need a lot of attention (specially puppies) and early socialization to people, kids, and other dogs. And they need money. Feeding a hybrid gets a bit expensive so bare that in mind please. But they make great pets. Just make sure the breeder is a good one. Call and ask questions. And they should ask tons of questions too.