The SKINNY on Aussies

Aw, you have a good looking boy there! []  All the research I did on Aussies said exactly what you had heard. As mentally prepared as I was for the high energy & intelligence, I'm not sure my house was ready for it! (lol) Mine is about to turn 4 months old  & he's already much different than any other dog I've ever been around. He's very loving, playful, & already knows more tricks than a lot of adult dogs we've had. He also seems to be able to tell if visitors are friends or not. With people we're comfortable around, he acts like he's known them forever as soon as he meets them. If less familiar people (neighbors, distant "family friends, " etc) come by, he just sits quietly watching on my feet. However, he is extremely stubborn! If he doesn't see any direct benefit in doing something (or , more often, stopping what he's doing), he just flat out refuses & no amount of bribing, yelling, re-directing, or spanking will change his mind. We're hoping obedience school will help us get a better idea of how to handle his strong personality.
 
 
While we're on the topic, I have to ask a question. Is it normal for Aussies to look people in the eye frequently. Bandit doesn't seem like he's doing it out of dominance or aggression. He seems almost like a person the way he focuses on faces & typically has a very alert, eager expression. Almost like he's awaiting orders or important news. My mother is a little alarmed at how often he looks people in the eye, but I'm hoping maybe it has something to do with his breed & not that he's going to grow up to be an evil little maniac (in my mother's words, haha). Any ideas?

I don't own one, but the first time I ever saw one was at my riding instructor's farm. He had about five of them that he had wandering around on his property. They seemed like great dogs. His didn't do a whole lot. From watching them I never would have thought they were known as an active breed. Most of the time they were all sleeping in the straw in an empty stall or following his wife around. His were all fairly calm and lazy, but they were very aloof. I took lessons there for years and never got within 50 feet of one of them. Ha.

Sioux (the lovely girl pictured below) is half Aussie and a wonderful therapy dog.  She doesn't love everyone, but will patiently sit and be patted by elders (anyone over 65 is fine with her LOL).  But, Sequoyah is from working lines.  She's intense, brilliant, herdy and guardy, and "needs a job" is an understatement.  If you do not belong here, she won't let you in.  If I hadn't known how to keep such a dog busy, she would have made something up that I probably wouldn't have liked.  So, to all the lurkers out there, the original Aussie is *not* the dog for everyone.  And, the show Aussie is not the original dog.    But, if you like beautiful, and you like smart, and you are savvy about the breed, they are a great dog.  Not for first timers unless you get the watered down version.
If you want to see what the working lines are like, go here:
www.pinciecreek.com
www.birchhollowkennel.com
www.workingaussiesource.com
Sequoyah is from Pincie Creek, Hardin's, Slash V lines, working stock all the way back.

TexasDaisy, if you are having to try spanking on an Aussie, something is not right about the way you are training. This is a dog that does better with explanation than force.  I've never laid a hand on either of my girls, and they do everything I've ever asked of them.   Take that dog to a clicker class - when an Aussie "gets" what the job is, he'll generally do the job!!!!  Traditional obedience (other than in the livestock arena) tends to shut these dogs down and make them sullen.  Not good.
It is neither normal nor abnormal for an Aussie to make eye contact with its owner.  That's a function of each dog's own personality and training.  It can be disarming, though, as evidenced by your relative's reaction.  Some people say that Aussies can "see into the next world".

Eye contact is constant with Kobi. Often you can find him sitting at your feet staring at you while you are watching TV or reading a book. If you look at him, he will always look you back- straight in the eye. Even when he has been naughty and hanging his head in shame, he will still be looking at you out of the corner of his eye.

As for being stuborn! Oh yeah! Kobi will weigh the effort vs the reward before he commits to anything.

Sam is our first dog, and he comes from obedience parents. He is definately not a working style Aussie, but he does not have the lush coat either. He's not *stubborn* but I find you need to use bribes consistently. He needs to get something out of what I am trying to teach him, or it needs to be "his idea". As for the staring, considering they were bred to take direction form owners, I think they are just focused and waiting for you to make a move.

Well, I didn't really do any research on the breed but after my grandpa euthanized his acd mix he decided he wanted an australian shepherd as the one he had  a few years ago was a great dog so we got sophie from a family that said she wasn't getting along with their new puppy so they couldn't keep her..whatever[&:]When we went to get her we met the family at the dog park and she really didn't care for us obviously she was already attached to her current family. but now that she's been with us for about 6 months I   LOVE her she is a great dog who loves evrybody in the family, is always ready to play with me or anybody for that matter she is quite stubborn, and likes to turn everything into a game especially when I'm trying to get her in the house and she's outside barking at whatever I'll say sophie!she walks half way over and then runs away to continue barking and if i go after her she "arooo's " and play bows and runs around kinda like she's saying catch me! She defintely got a great herding instinct, and I'd love to take her to herd. Oh yeah eye contact is also very important to her she 's constantly watching me and loves to stare dirctly in my eyes. She knows when she's been bad because she'll hang her head. she is jut too cute though so it's hard to stay mad at her. I need to post pics of her and jake but i had borrowed my sister's digital camera and she wanted it back and since she doesn't like animals she erased the pics of the doggies[:@]

Aussiegirl, if you have to "bribe" your Aussie, it sounds like you trained him with treats, but didn't hide them from view, or fade them appropriately.  Aussies are so quick that you have to be careful of that.  When I train, treats might appear, but after I click, instead of coming from my hand, the dog and I might run quickly to another spot where I magically pull one out!   And, once a dog knows a behavior,  the treats should only be intermittent ("variable reinforcement"). You really can start over (even use different commands). []  A couple of sites you might like:
[linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com]www.clickerlessons.com[/link]
[linkhttp://www.clickersolutions.com]www.clickersolutions.com[/link]

spiritdogs, I have heard differing opinons from different sources (both professional & internet articles) on spanking dogs. Some hold that it can be devestation emotionally to the dog & hinder training. Others have said that, if used sparingly, it can be used to reinforce pack order (as dogs naturally use physical means to do this from time to time themselves) & help stop bad habits.  I assume it's kind of like corporal punishment with kids--everyone has a professional opinion & research to back up what they prefer. We spank rarely & certainly aren't way-laying or abusing our dog at those times, by any means.
 
As for clicker training, I had never heard of it before I found this forum. We've looked into it, & no trainers we've found within an hour's drive here use it. They don't even carry clickers at the closest Petsmart (a little over an hour away). I guess that's maybe more of a big city/Northern thing? (Yes, we're all backwards hillbillies, sorry.)
 
Do you have any other methods that might be helpful in stopping troublesome behavior? Mostly we're just having trouble with normal puppy biting & trying to climb on top of the coffee table/couch. Nothing terribly serious or unusual for a puppy of his age. After a lot of work with him, he responds to "no" about 75% of the time, but often gets so focused that no amount of redirecting, scolding, etc seems to phase him. I love his determination, but it may be a long battle to shape it into something socially acceptable.
 
I really do appreciate your experience and suggestions. Living in the middle of nowhere makes things a little more difficult, though. [&o]
 
To everyone else, I'm glad Bandit isn't the only creepy staring Aussie out there (lol)! It's kind of nice coming home & having someone there who's so focused on you, isn't it? & if it makes strangers nervous...even better!  []

TexasDaisy, Kobi was quite the little 'nipper' as a pup and is still very mouthy. When anyone would enter the house, Kobi would be there all excited greeting them by running in circles and of course nipping their heels. Same going up or down stairs with him. Before I actually trained him to sit nice and wait at the door, I always made sure to have a toy there and would put it in his mouth. He stilled circled and acted the fool, but it saved a lot of painful little bites to the ankles as well as my guests panyhose. At 4 he still grabs something for his mouth when someone comes to the door. Usually a stinky sneaker!

I don't know a thing about Aussies, but I will say that I don't spank my dog. I don't believe it's right. Heck, I RARELY have to spank my own children.

But, for my dog, she's TOO TOO TOO sensitive for me to spank. She'd tremble and I'd feel like the biggest jerk on the planet.

Chewbecca...you NEVER spank your dogs but SOMETIMES spank your kids!!!![] Now THAT is a dog lover!

ORIGINAL: TexasDaisy

spiritdogs, I have heard differing opinons from different sources (both professional & internet articles) on spanking dogs. Some hold that it can be devestation emotionally to the dog & hinder training. Others have said that, if used sparingly, it can be used to reinforce pack order (as dogs naturally use physical means to do this from time to time themselves) & help stop bad habits.  I assume it's kind of like corporal punishment with kids--everyone has a professional opinion & research to back up what they prefer. We spank rarely & certainly aren't way-laying or abusing our dog at those times, by any means.

As for clicker training, I had never heard of it before I found this forum. We've looked into it, & no trainers we've found within an hour's drive here use it. They don't even carry clickers at the closest Petsmart (a little over an hour away). I guess that's maybe more of a big city/Northern thing? (Yes, we're all backwards hillbillies, sorry.)

Do you have any other methods that might be helpful in stopping troublesome behavior? Mostly we're just having trouble with normal puppy biting & trying to climb on top of the coffee table/couch. Nothing terribly serious or unusual for a puppy of his age. After a lot of work with him, he responds to "no" about 75% of the time, but often gets so focused that no amount of redirecting, scolding, etc seems to phase him. I love his determination, but it may be a long battle to shape it into something socially acceptable.

I really do appreciate your experience and suggestions. Living in the middle of nowhere makes things a little more difficult, though. [&o]

To everyone else, I'm glad Bandit isn't the only creepy staring Aussie out there (lol)! It's kind of nice coming home & having someone there who's so focused on you, isn't it? & if it makes strangers nervous...even better!  []

You can get a clicker on sitstay.com, maybe even here at dog.com.  And, the lessons are free at [linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com.%C2%A0]www.clickerlessons.com. [/link] If you need to see the techniques, visit [linkhttp://www.clickertrainusa.com]www.clickertrainusa.com[/link] and click on the videos.  Gal Ziv, the trainer in the videos, is a member here, just hasn't been posting lately.
If you want a book that tells you how to do it, grab "Clicking With Your Dog" by Peggy Tillman.
Please don't accept the advice of people who tell you that you need to hit a dog to be a leader.  Just ain't so, no matter where the heck you live.


Some of the normal puppy stuff is just because of too much energy.  Exercise helps a lot, and you can crate him occasionally for a time out (do not use the crate for punishment - just toss a treat in, and let him go in for it - or let him busy himself in there with an everlasting treat ball or a buster cube or stuffed Kong). 
It sounds like he's getting too much freedom in the house too soon.  You can tether him to you when he's in the LR, and when he tries for the coffee table, you can redirect him.  Keep the tables clear for now (counters, too), so he never gets any reward for going there.  If he never gets any reward, the mystique tends to disappear and he will busy himself with other things.
Puppy Primer, by Patricia McConnell might help you and it's dirt cheap. []
In fact, her site www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com is full of inexpensive books and tapes that could be of a lot of use to someone who does not live near a good training facility! HTH

spiritdogs, I have heard differing opinons from different sources (both professional & internet articles) on spanking dogs. Some hold that it can be devestation emotionally to the dog & hinder training. Others have said that, if used sparingly, it can be used to reinforce pack order (as dogs naturally use physical means to do this from time to time themselves) & help stop bad habits.  I assume it's kind of like corporal punishment with kids--everyone has a professional opinion & research to back up what they prefer. We spank rarely & certainly aren't way-laying or abusing our dog at those times, by any means.

As for clicker training, I had never heard of it before I found this forum. We've looked into it, & no trainers we've found within an hour's drive here use it. They don't even carry clickers at the closest Petsmart (a little over an hour away). I guess that's maybe more of a big city/Northern thing? (Yes, we're all backwards hillbillies, sorry.)

Do you have any other methods that might be helpful in stopping troublesome behavior? Mostly we're just having trouble with normal puppy biting & trying to climb on top of the coffee table/couch. Nothing terribly serious or unusual for a puppy of his age. After a lot of work with him, he responds to "no" about 75% of the time, but often gets so focused that no amount of redirecting, scolding, etc seems to phase him. I love his determination, but it may be a long battle to shape it into something socially acceptable.

I really do appreciate your experience and suggestions. Living in the middle of nowhere makes things a little more difficult, though. [&o]

To everyone else, I'm glad Bandit isn't the only creepy staring Aussie out there (lol)! It's kind of nice coming home & having someone there who's so focused on you, isn't it? & if it makes strangers nervous...even better!  []

You can get a clicker on sitstay.com, maybe even here at dog.com.  And, the lessons are free at [linkhttp://www.clickerlessons.com.%C2%A0]www.clickerlessons.com. [/link] If you need to see the techniques, visit [linkhttp://www.clickertrainusa.com]www.clickertrainusa.com[/link] and click on the videos.  Gal Ziv, the trainer in the videos, is a member here, just hasn't been posting lately.
If you want a book that tells you how to do it, grab "Clicking With Your Dog" by Peggy Tillman.
Please don't accept the advice of people who tell you that you need to hit a dog to be a leader.  Just ain't so, no matter where the heck you live.


Some of the normal puppy stuff is just because of too much energy.  Exercise helps a lot, and you can crate him occasionally for a time out (do not use the crate for punishment - just toss a treat in, and let him go in for it - or let him busy himself in there with an everlasting treat ball or a buster cube or stuffed Kong). 
It sounds like he's getting too much freedom in the house too soon.  You can tether him to you when he's in the LR, and when he tries for the coffee table, you can redirect him.  Keep the tables clear for now (counters, too), so he never gets any reward for going there.  If he never gets any reward, the mystique tends to disappear and he will busy himself with other things.
Puppy Primer, by Patricia McConnell might help you and it's dirt cheap. []
In fact, her site [linkhttp://www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com]www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com[/link] is full of inexpensive books and tapes that could be of a lot of use to someone who does not live near a good training facility! HTH

Another helpful item - "The Ultimate Puppy Toolkit" at [linkhttp://www.premierpet.com]www.premierpet.com[/link]