White German Shepherds?

ORIGINAL: Truley
...Why is it that 20 years ago this was good enough to win the breed a BIS, but now it is not?

Tucker was a phenomal (sp?) dog, that's for sure.  I hate to say it, but I don't see many GSD as outstanding as him.
 

And I should note that Covy-Tucker was the only GSD to ever win BIS for the breed. To me that says alot.
Dawn

 That might have something to do with the entry numbers.  There aren't many GSDs that show at Westminster.  The year I went, there were more GSDs showing in Juniors then breed.  Someone who's into GSDs told me the breed Nationals are scheduled for the same time.  I believe it has something to do with "show politics".
 
As for the Germans culling white GSDs.  Something I read awhile ago popped into my head last night.  If I remember correctly, the whites were undesirable because they blended in with the sheep.  Flock guarding dogs should blend in with the sheep, but not the herding dogs.  Now, mind you, I read that article quite a few years ago, so could be remembering it wrong.  But it makes sense. And back then, dogs were bred for a job.

ORIGINAL: hdkutz

"are they still irresponsible because they prefer to have white progeny?"

In a sense yes. There is a breed standard. When Max started the breed there were some whites but as the breed originator he decided that white didn`t meet his objective.  They should not be bred because they don`t meet the breed standard.  

Wasn't it von Stephanitz who also stated that all GSDs should achieve Schutzhund titles in order to be eligible for registration and breeding when he first started the breed?  Following your reasoning, wouldn't that make a great number of GSD breeders in America irresponsible because their dogs do not hold a Schutzhund title but are still registered and bred as GSDs? 

I must admit that I have been to several GSD shows over the years and have not come across one GSD who was considered to be the best example of the standard in the confirmation ring holding any level of a Schutzhund title. 

Yes, there is a breed standard, but the original standard for a working GSD that was concepted by von Stephanitz to which I assume you are referring is not completely followed in America, making it frustrating that the GSDCA will not allow whites to be eligible for conformation titles.  I cannot fathom that the GSDCA still views white as being a disqualifying fault just because the WGSD blends in with the sheep (how many people do you know in America who use a GSD as a true herding dog - not just for herding trials?).  If this is not their reasoning for disqualifying whites, then what is? I can see why color was an important factor in Germany back in the day, but to be of significance in the AKC show ring is just ignorant at best, IMHO. 

Hey Everyone!
 
On a site I belong to we had a HUGE discussion on WGSD because of the way the best in show contest was being judged. The rules were to judge each contestant according to AKC standards, which as you well know, they disqualify the WGS.
 
The decision was then to judge the contestants by AKC and UKC standards, which would then include the WGS. Inlike many other Mixed Breeds out there that people make up, like the labradoodle or the Yorkiepooh, the WGS should be AKC and allowed to compete. This is not just another breed made up for the heck of it or by mistake. They have all the characterictics of the GSD with the extra ability to be seen at night (little humor).
 
On the other site, we have a member that has two WGS and they are very gorgeous. Maybe people against the WGS as an AKC recognized breed, never really took the time to do their homework on them[]

Sorry, but I have to hijack and toss this out there - Covy-Tucker Hill is the kennel that the dog came from.  His name is "Hatter" (as Xeph referred to him). http://www.scalesaz.com/cth/

^What Colliewog said.  The dog's name is "Hatter".  Covy-Tucker Hill is the kennel name.  Cappy and Gloria are still breeding to this day.  Still doing well too.

ORIGINAL: colliewog

Sorry, but I have to hijack and toss this out there - Covy-Tucker Hill is the kennel that the dog came from.  His name is "Hatter" (as Xeph referred to him).  [linkhttp://www.scalesaz.com/cth/]http://www.scalesaz.com/cth/[/link]

 
Yeah, I realized my goof in the middle of the night.  His register name was Covy-Tucker Hill's Manhattan.

Following your reasoning, wouldn't that make a great number of GSD breeders in America irresponsible because their dogs do not hold a Schutzhund title but are still registered and bred as GSDs?

 
This is true. But  GSDCA has set their standards. You could petition them to allow whites but don`t hold your breath. They don`t require titles, breed survey, of health cert. Personally my pups over the last 18 years have come from titled dogs of imported parents.
Don`t get me wrong I like whites and long hairs too, but............. 

ORIGINAL: hdkutz

This is true. But  GSDCA has set their standards. You could petition them to allow whites but don`t hold your breath. They don`t require titles, breed survey, of health cert. Personally my pups over the last 18 years have come from titled dogs of imported parents.
Don`t get me wrong I like whites and long hairs too, but............. 

 
Yeah, the petitioning has been done before with no changes made as far as allowing whites to be part of the standard.  I can live with that, for I have no intentions of showing GSDs in conformation - I have more of a preference for obedience/Schutzhund trials.  I still think, however, that the GSDCA should provide sound reasoning for their decision to not allow whites in the standard - not just go by what Germany has decided (since they don't follow their standard to a "T," anyway).  I also know that there are many highly regarded, very responsible breeders out there who specialize in WGSDs - and they should not be considered "irresponsible" just because their dogs don't fit the standard characteristic of "color."

Here is an article that discusses why WGSDs became undesirable in Germany.  Unfortunately, it does not list any sources of where the info came from - but it definitely is an interesting read.  It actually talks about how the WGSD became undesirable during the Hitler era - not because of what Max von Stephanitz preferred.
 
http://www.wgsdca.org/thebreed/gsdvswgsd.asp
 
 

That`s funny they interviewed Wiine Strickland. I had a dog with her lines in the Dam`s side.

Hdkutz,

I just wanted to say that it has been a pleasure discussing this topic with you and I wanted to thank you for taking the time to read that article - I admire the fact that you took an interest in learning more about WGSDs.  It was nice to have a respectful, thought-provoking discussion with someone who has a completely different view than me regarding WGSDs without it turning heated - many times these discussions tend to become ugly.  I look forward to reading more posts from you - hopefully, they will be on something we both agree upon!   For now, you and I will just have to agree to disagree.  [] 

Well, in the interest of adding nothing useful to the conversation, I would like to post a pic of my friend's white GSD - "Hoya". She is healthy, and has a wonderful temperament.
 

[link>http://forum.dog.com/asp/showProfile.asp?memid=19516]Vertigo[/link] regardless as to the color of the individual dog it is by far the most noble breed IMHO.
I would prefer to own a white GSD with good drive, sound structure and a solid temperament that some of the new half lame Am. champions. Except I did really like Dallas.

Here are my babies.

Ruger is 4, Sassy (middle) is 11 and Zehra is 5.   How could anyone say these gorgeous creatures should not exist????

Hidden Hill's White Ruger,  OFA good, hips & elbows...................Sandhill's Twist of Fate, OFA good, hips & elbows