Question for AmStaff / Pittie experts

I believe AKC AmStaffs can be cross-registered as UKC APBTs, but the UKC APBTs cannot be registered with the AKC.  I've been told that it's because the AmStaff has kept track of the pedigree for more generations than the APBT, but I've never really looked into it myself.  If you ever look at the pedigrees on some of the dogs shown in ADBA, they seem to go on forever.  I'm fairly certain dogs registered with the ADBA can be registered with the UKC, but I'm not sure.  I personally believe that an AmStaff is any APBT that is bred for to show or just for looks, while an APBT is bred for work such as weight pull or catch dog. 

A question i have always had is what are the physical diffrences of pitts as compared to amstaffs? As far as i know, just about anyone will call anything under the sun a pitt and i though amstaff's were basically glorified pits (im not trying to be rude with that comment) that were raised and bred to eliminate some of the 'fighting' instincts of pitts, and make quailty show animals with registered lines.  Called amstaffs due to the negative connotations with pitts.

 

• APBTs and Am Staffs are descended from the same dogs,

True: APBT and Amstaffs are both breeds created from bulldog and terrier bloodlines. The APBT were imported to america just before the civil war. This is when they were actually named AMERICAN PBT. The dogs left behind continued to be bred with different strains of bulldog and terrier blood.

• APBTs were bred to fight and that was why the UKC was formed, so that fanciers could have a registry as the AKC refused to register them

Sort of; they were bred as fighting dogs but used to do the same work in america as they were doing in england. The UKC was created for the purpose of  providing guidlines and registration for fighting dogs. It wasn't that the AKC refused to register them, rather the people who only wanted to show the breed and remove themselves from the fighting dog aspect were looking for a place to register their dogs as they brought them from England. It was the AKC who agreed to register these dogs (basically the same dogs the UKC was registering) IF the owners agreed to naming the breed Staffordshire bull terriers (after the town they had originated in england). Owners agreed and hence, the UKC registered APBT and the AKC registered Staffordshire Bull terriers.  

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  Am Staffs were registered in 1936 with the AKC and have been bred as companion dogs (there was a name change in 1972)
  

It was actually 1973, but the only thing changed was the prefix "american" being added to the name. This was also at the reccomendation of the AKC. So this is where AmStaffs came from. They had previously closed registration to the the staffordshires for awhile, but re-opened it in the 70's under the condition that american be added to the name AND only dogs with registered, staffordshire parents would be allowed in the AKC.  This is why APBTs can never register with AKC because they do not and cannot have staffordshire parents because the AKC is the one who gave them this name from the start.  Essentially, an Amstaff is an APBT, and the UKC knows this, which is why Amstaffs can register as APBT with them (because thats what they are) and still register with AKC as Amstaffs because the AKC decided to give them this name.  The controversy on this is ongoing because  APBT owners  have tried to prove this through DNA testing. Due to the fact that different strains of these dogs continued to be bred in england years after the APBT came to america, there are tiny, suddle differences in the DNA makeup and it is this fact that the AKC uses to maintain that APBT and AmStaffs are 2 different breeds.

 

Now we have a TROLL on this board who keeps posting about how AmStaffs can be registered as APBTs so these are one and the same breed, not two breeds. Actuyall it is worse, she subscribes to the "if it looks like a Pit Bull it must be a 'pure generic Pit Bull'" (whatever that is). This troll is obviously looking to rile people up and get them involved in meaningless arguments, I will spare you the details. I have reached the point where every time she posts, I reply with a "don't feed the trolls" smiley but I would like to be prepared in case this comes up again
 

I am not really sure what a "pure, generic pit bull" is either;  I do have my opinion that the AKC is really just splitting hairs and they really are essentially the same dog. I have done a load of research, simply to prepare myself  for the new addition to our family, Kaiya. Our 8 mo old APBT. I don't claim to know all by any means, but this debate has been going on for years. I have also learned, just additional FYI, that part of the reason for the APBT to be given the bad press over the Amstaffs is because AKC dogs are expensive to buy but an un-registered dog is not. Those who have no respect for these dogs, can acquire an APBT for illegal purposes at little or no expense and create dogs who end up in the press as "mean, aggressive pit bulls". It's a shame but the Amstaff is protected from this through the AKC and if they would let the APBT register, then they would be afforded the same protection and possibly curb this behavior. 
 
Ok, said my peace. []  Hope the info helps though! 

I am just now seeing this. Thanks for a very helpful post!

Have to correct the true history of the breeds. Have been involved with AmStaffs for over 25yrs:
 
The original dogs came over from the British Isles in the mid to late 1800's and were then called "Bull and Terriers" or "Bull Terriers".  The dogs were used for everything from herding to hunting to babysitting and, yes, fighting. There were probably some crosses made to other breeds but no one knows. By 1898, a group of sporting "dogmen" wanted to keep pedigree records and so the many families of Pit Terriers (also called Yankee Terriers) were recorded and continued as mainly working dogs. By the 1930's, a group of men wanted to show their dogs in AKC conformation so petitioned AKC to allow the dog to be registered as the American Bull Terrier. By this time the white Bull Terrier people had a lot of power in AKC and refused to allow another Bull Terrier so the breed was accepted as the Staffordshire Terrier.  About the same time in England, the descendents of the original dogs were beginning to be registered with The Kennel Club as Staffordshire Terriers also, although the breeds had diverged and looked a bit different.
 
All went along until the late 1960's when enough of the British dogs had been imported to petition for AKC recognition. Since the breeds were no longer the same, the English dogs were admitted as Staffordshire Bull Terriers and the American dogs had American added to their names. (The Bull Terrier people weren't so powerful then.) This became official in 1972. I was showing dogs then but not AmStaffs.
 
So now there are 3 breeds who are from the same genetic stock, the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The owner of UKC felt that all dogs from the same stock should be registered as APBT's and always allowed this. AKC keeps closed stud books so that only dogs from AKC parents can be registered. The breeds came from the same background but the old lines of APBT's that have not mixed in AmStaff do look a bit different. And there is no way to tell bloodlines genetically so only pedigrees and what traits are bred make all any different.  So while they are different, they're the same. But all 3 breeds make wonderful companions.
 
 

I'm no expert (never even touched a real Am Staff!), but wasn't there a dual registered dog a couple of years back that went BIS somewhere or something like that? And yet, I think of them as different...yet the same. []