Collies and Shelties

Most people ask if (1) my smooths are 'shaved' or (2) what are they mixed with.  I even had someone approach me at a dog show who was so shocked that they allowed me to show my shaved Collies.  [8D]

Our Collies have always been high energy, yet very attentive.  They are extremely loyal and protective of the entire family.  They will bond to a particular person - usually the males to women and the females to men - but watch over the entire family.  They are big tattletales - nothing happens without them knowing about it.  They don't usually trust non-family people.  Just because we've allowed you in the house 10 times doesn't mean you can come in uninvited on the 11th time. (No stranger pet sitters - they won't let them in!)   They are a nurturing breed, yet at the same time are great "varmint" dogs.  I used to raise rats, which they would protect, but heaven help the grove rats.  They'd eat them whole!  I've had my life saved on several occasions by my Collies, just doing what they were bred to do.  I owe everything  to them. 

ORIGINAL: LizzieCollie

I personally think its good when breeds exhibit little change throughout the years. Collies a hundred years ago were smaller in build (much like a BC) IMO  and had much less coat. I dont like such drastic changes.

I think there have been fewer changes in the smooth variety than the roughs.  I've found pics of smooth bitches from the 1920s who look similar to my Smidgen.  We've tried to stay very true to form, keeping our breeding stock at the low end of the standard, so they can remain lithe and agile.  Some of these heavy-boned Collies out there these days are just so wrong!  Mine can keep moving all day long and never get tired.  We've met friends at the dog park and cycled through 3 sets of dogs who came in, ran around and were exhausted, while mine were still happily trotting/running around.

I've "met" Merlin, actually. He was a nice dog but I was a little unnerved and saddened - kind of like seeing your best friend after they've had a bout with a chronic illness - or your husband after you find out he's been cheating on you. There was very little about the dog I met, that reminded me of the breed I love. I have a friend with a dog that is a half-brother of the first BC Best in Show - I feel a bit of the same thing looking at him and viewing his relatives online or on tv.

Katie, you might find it interesting that the Australian/New Zealand Border Collie standard does not allow smooth coats. I sometimes wonder what they've weeded out when they disallowed that variety in the breed. As you know, it is a dominant characteristic, so it is possible to remove it from the gene pool by simply never breeding smooths. Now the future of American smooths is in the balance, as many of the top conformation breeders were mentored by Australiasians, and the judges are educated by them.

My shelties personalities are very different!
 
Casey as a pup and most of her life was a bit strung out and nervous. She is scared of flashlights, dumptrucks, school buses,  fire engines, police cars, any blinking lights. Yet, she'd bark and try to chase cars, kids on bikes, squirrels. She barks when someone sneezes, when I (or a stranger) get's into a car. Shelties are known to be vocal!  She barks when we used the microwave also. She's very sweet though..and affectionate.
 
Diego hardly every barks. He's very laid back. He does have tons of energy and I exercise him every day! And he's in agiligy now. But he's much more mellow then her! He's not afraid of anything really. Not even thunderstorms, fire engines...the POLAR opposite of Casey. Even sheltie people at an agility show commented on what a great personality he has. He's very friendly.
 
Although he hit a stubborn stage at 8 months (that was a couple weeks ago now). He's still a sweetie..and we're working on it! []

We did have until this year two shelties, Cocoa and Shadow.  Cocoa was a blue merle and Shadow is a black and tan.  Both are two of the best dogs we have ever owned, loving, smart, and willing.  I can't imagine not having a sheltie. 

Cocoa passed away earlier this year due to pancreatitis exacerbating a hidden genetic defect, one kidney, already had started to go into kidney failure.  I miss her very much, she was my baby.  ABsolutely gorgeous dog!

ORIGINAL: brookcove

Katie, you might find it interesting that the Australian/New Zealand Border Collie standard does not allow smooth coats. I sometimes wonder what they've weeded out when they disallowed that variety in the breed. As you know, it is a dominant characteristic, so it is possible to remove it from the gene pool by simply never breeding smooths. Now the future of American smooths is in the balance, as many of the top conformation breeders were mentored by Australiasians, and the judges are educated by them.

Interested and intruiged.  Maybe there's a particular smooth that is in the pedigrees that's responsible for something bad?  I love the look of the smooth BC (go figure) but don't know anything about the bloodlines here or anywhere else to know if there are any health or temperament issues.

I find the smooth BC very interesting.  When I was trying to determin a breed for Gizmo I could only guess BC and not much else fit her, even her attitude is very much BC.  The only problem is her coat, it's not the standard BC coat you see everyday.  Now after reading this I feel much better calling her a BC knowing that it's possibal to have a smooth coat in this breed.
 
Once someone asked me about miniture collies and I explained that they are a differnt breed and are called Shetland Sheepdogs.  Then I explained that it's sorta like the horse breeds, you have whatever breed a horse may be and then you also have a seperat breed called Shetland which are even a seperat breed from the miniture horse, Yes they may look like a miniture horse but the breed originated seperate from the miniture and the normal sized horses.  They may even have the same patters as a full sized horse but are no where close to being related.

I've often thought Gizmo looked pretty much like a Border collie.  About a third of Border collies, I'd guess, are smooth coated.  The most influential sire in modern history was a dog named Don who was prick eared and smooth coated.  My new puppy's sire is a relative of Don and has his look:



Far from having any known issues, the smooth coat is connected with some of our healthiest, most talented, and most temperamentally sound lines.  I don't understand the reasoning behind culling the smooths originally overseas, but they did not do it in their native land, nor here.

Sadly, the show Border collie here is taking the same course.  Smooths and roughs are shown together and the judges follow the tastes of the overseas show judges.

Shelties are my absolute favorite breed. I have owned 7 of them and all but two were rescue dogs.  I heard this interesting thing a couple weeks ago and wonder if y'all can tell me if it is true. I was told that the original dog to make it a Sheltie was bred with Pomeranian which is why they have the same bark and similar look and fur.. I have never heard this before, have any of you?!
 
many thanks!

ORIGINAL: desertrose

Shelties are my absolute favorite breed. I have owned 7 of them and all but two were rescue dogs.  I heard this interesting thing a couple weeks ago and wonder if y'all can tell me if it is true. I was told that the original dog to make it a Sheltie was bred with Pomeranian which is why they have the same bark and similar look and fur.. I have never heard this before, have any of you?!

many thanks!

Foundation of Breed Many breeds can be acknowledged for their contribution to the present day Shetland Sheepdog. Of them being the Border Collie, the Rough Collie, the Scotch or Working Collie (which many feel is the prime contributor for the merle color gene. The Scotch or Working Collie shares responsibility with the Iceland Dog for the "white factor" gene.), the Pomeranian, the King Charles Spaniel, and various Spitz Breeds such as the Iceland Dog (incorrectly called the Iceland Yakki Dog) and the Greenland Yakki Dog.
http://home.twcny.rr.com/kelticshelties/ShHistory.htm

Oh, I just wanted to say that my beautiful Cocoa who pass this year was from Boomer who is a fairly famous sheltie as he won the herding breed at Westminster several, I don't know when, years ago.  She had amazing personality, friendly to everyone, quiet, loving and protective.  She really had all the qualities that make a perfect dog.  Breeder said that she is more of the "new" type shelties with her disposition.
 
My Shadow comes from some equally impressive, I'm can't remember, but he apparently comes from older-type stock and is timid around new people, but isn't afraid of any living animal.  Breed told me this was because where the shelties came from the only predators were people. 
 
Can anyone on this forum confirm these statements one way or the other.  I believe him, he is a very knowledgable breeder but one never knows for sure.

Wow, that is pretty exciting for your Sheltie! I bet you were so very proud!  I know I would be pretty excited and proud~  Many congrats! However I cannot confirm anything what was told about your dog..
 
I come from a different mind set. I adopt Shelties because I really love the breed and just when  I think I understand them...they prove me wrong! Very stoic breed with lots of pride!

They really are different! I've never owned shelties, although I considered them very seriously before buying my first corgi (was looking for small, smart, and trainable) years ago- they're neat, but just not as neat as collies.

 My collie SDIT Wings passed away on Monday (found this forum while looking for referrals on reputable collie breeders- Wings was from a very nice lady who did hip and eye checks but didn't know anything about epilepsy in her lines- which is what Wings died from, we think- it could have been a toxicity issue but even the vet couldn't be sure) and was perfect. Got her at 8 weeks, she had beautiful manners from the start- except when it came to livestock. She was TERRIBLE with horses and cattle (okay with sheep, but could NOT be called off cattle- which was okay, she wasn't destined for a herding career and we just kept her on leash around horses and cattle and resolved to work on the issue in the future that never came.) She was very easy to housebreak compared to some of my toy-breed fosters but not as easy as my corgi, and she was a wonderful mix of softness and resiliance when it came to training. She wasn't a perfect dog, but she was very close.


Edited to fix a sentence fragment and to add the picture of Wings.

ORIGINAL: Pwca

They really are different! I've never owned shelties. My collie SDIT Wings passed away on Monday (found this forum while looking for referrals on reputable collie breeders- Wings was from a very nice lady who did hip and eye checks but didn't know anything about epilepsy in her lines- which is what Wings died from, we think- it could have been a toxicity issue but even the vet couldn't be sure) and was perfect. Got her at 8 weeks, she had beautiful manners from the start- except when it came to livestock. She was TERRIBLE with horses and cattle (okay with sheep, but could NOT be called off cattle- which was okay, she wasn't destined for a herding career and we just kept her on leash around horses and cattle and resolved to work on the issue in the future that never came.) She was very easy to housebreak compared to some of my toy-breed fosters but not as easy as my corgi, and she was a wonderful mix of softness and resiliance when it came to training. She wasn't a perfect dog, but she was very close.

So sorry for your loss!  Even worse that she was a future service dog.   I wish you luck in the future!  In my experience, there's nothing like a Collie. (Of course, most everyone can say that about their breed, but I still like to say it!) []

I am truly sorry for your loss as well. It is so very difficult for me to lose any of my four legged furry creatures. I honestly think I take it much harder than losing any human.  I know that sounds horrific and inhumane, but that is just how I react when I lose one of my dogs.
 
I hope you are feeling better now. Keep us posted on how you are doing and such.