German Shepherds and stacking

Kord will do a natural stack as well. Every once in while I get one that is dead on perfect, but never can grab the camera in time or have it ready. IMO the stack for show is because of the natural one.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense! Thanks

 A correctly put together dog will often stack on it's own. It's supposed to be the way they naturally stand, and that's usually the prettiest stack you'll get, if you have a nice dog

The stack for the show ring mimics the dogs' natural stacks.  The dog should look natural and alert in the show ring.  This is why so often we spend ten minutes working on stacking or trying to take a picture, and then the dog runs off to watch a squirrel and stacks beautifully!

The reason German Shepherds tend to stand that way more than other breeds:  it is no longer easy for the dog to stand in a normal stack.

Because of the exaggerated length of the bones in the rear leg, it would take a certain amount of effort for the dog to stand with both rear legs behind the dog and with the hocks perpendicular to the ground. When is the last time you saw a GSD stand in this more natural stance? The hocks would be so far behind the dog that they would not offer much support.

In a situation where a normally built dog would alert on something and end up in a beautiful four-square show stack, the GSD has to put at least one of their rear legs underneath them for support.

Riiiight, because freakish American show lines are the *only* German shepherds in the world....

Mine free stack and stand square every day.  Just depends on what they are doing at the time.  Their stack *is* the most natural stance, and looking at the historical VA list, it appears to go back to at least the early 1920s, at which time the breed what like 20 years old.

The length of the leg is not what is exaggerated in American show lines, it is the angulation and the croup.

Liesje

Mine free stack and stand square every day.  Just depends on what they are doing at the time.  Their stack *is* the most natural stance, and looking at the historical VA list, it appears to go back to at least the early 1920s, at which time the breed what like 20 years old. 

 This is true - the style stack far outdates the extreme show type seen today. Honestly I suspect that it was likely used to start with because it was thought that it made the dogs look "ready for action". You can see this 1920/22 Grand Victor is stacked in the typical GSD show stack but doesn't have modern show GSD structure: http://www.gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/edogs/ErichGrafenwerth.html

Liesje

The length of the leg is not what is exaggerated in American show lines, it is the angulation and the croup.

  Excessive length of the rear legs is generally part of the the modern show GSD's angulation and the look, as well as other breeds who have been selected for "big movement" in the show ring.

Liesje

Mine free stack and stand square every day.  Just depends on what they are doing at the time.  Their stack *is* the most natural stance, and looking at the historical VA list, it appears to go back to at least the early 1920s, at which time the breed what like 20 years old. 

 This is true - the style stack far outdates the extreme show type seen today. Honestly I suspect that it was likely used to start with because it was thought that it made the dogs look "ready for action". You can see this 1920/22 Grand Victor is stacked in the typical GSD show stack but doesn't have modern show GSD structure: http://www.gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/edogs/ErichGrafenwerth.html

Liesje

The length of the leg is not what is exaggerated in American show lines, it is the angulation and the croup.

  Excessive length of the rear legs is generally part of the the modern show GSD's angulation and the look, as well as other breeds who have been selected for "big movement" in the show ring.

Are the legs that long compared to other breeds?  For example, when I see many Irish Setters stacked for show, to me their legs look very long/stretched out way behind them and they do not look natural at all.

I find most of the specialty type American show line GSDs very unnatural looking, regardless of how they stack or stand naturally.

Agile and Lies, thank you. I was trying to research this at work today because I was confused and just could not devote the time to it.

I have been around shepherds all my life and never heard such a thing.

Liesje

Are the legs that long compared to other breeds?  For example, when I see many Irish Setters stacked for show, to me their legs look very long/stretched out way behind them and they do not look natural at all.

 It is the length and ratio of the leg bones that goes with the angulation. The placement of the leg bones is another factor as well, but you generally need the length to get the excessive angulation and "big movement". Specifically it involves the length/ratio/placement of the hip to the stifle to the hock. Much of the "extreme angulation" that you see is the result of the length of the thigh bone combined with the angulation of the stifle - the "bend of the stifle". Loose ligaments may also be "part of the package" with many over angulated dogs, as it seems to be a common problem which ads to the entire "unnatural" appearance.

  You can see comparing these two skeletal sketches the difference in not only placement but leg length between a "normal" dogs and a show GSD:

"normal" dog:

 http://susangarrettdogagility.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Skeleton-from-Dog-Steps-1.jpg

Show GSD:

http://www.fredlanting.org/images/ang3.jpg