Cavalier King Charles Spaniels

I've known a few and I loved the ones I knew.  I think it is important to find a good breeder as in any breed.   They do have some health issues that would worry me.

http://www.cavalierhealth.org/

 Cavaliers are a rather unhealthy breed unfortunately. The heart issue Heart Mitral Valve Disease (MVD) is the leading cause of death in the breed. According to this website: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/ it affects half of all Cavaliers by age 5 and nearly all of them by age 10. So yes, it is a problem with the entire breed. There is another very serious disease that is widespread in them Syringomyelia which affects the brain and spinal cord.

  I personally would stay away from a breed with such serious, widespread health issues. Obviously some people feel differently and are really set on the owning the breed. All breeds have potential health issues and in all breeds issues can pop up even in the most well planned out litters. Not all breeds potential issues are comparable though.

Have you considered Papillons? They also originated from spaniels and are a nice little breed that sounds like they would fit what you are looking for.

The heart problem isn't a "bad breeding" problem - it IS literally "part" of the breed.  The really good breeders are trying HARD to get this out of the breed -- but since the problem doesn't show up until the dog is 4-5 that means KNOWING which dogs are ok to breed becomes super tough and they can only be bred a couple of times, if that.

So a **good** cavalier breeder often gets $2000 - $3000 for a pup. And it's interesting ... the GOOD cavalier breders I've known have been very very good -- not just trying to avoid "breed related health issues" but literally trying hard to improve the breed itself.

They are incredibly sweet little dogs.   Monica Segal (Doggie Dietician) has cavaliers -- and it's why she started on the dog dietician route years ago -- in order to better feed them.  She is also a SUPERB source if you want to know about them.  She and Morey don't breed -- but she's had them for a long time.

For me the show stopper is that they are not at all long lived.  An "old" cavalier is 12-13.  But I've also met Cavaliers that were spirtely, active 16 year olds. 

I LOVE the breed -- they are THE sweetest dogs -- but the lifespan terrifies me.

Have you thot about a Tibetan Spaniel?  Really independant for spaniels.

 Steph, we've already discussed this. You're getting a corgi, remember.

calliecritturs

The heart problem isn't a "bad breeding" problem - it IS literally "part" of the breed.  The really good breeders are trying HARD to get this out of the breed -- but since the problem doesn't show up until the dog is 4-5 that means KNOWING which dogs are ok to breed becomes super tough and they can only be bred a couple of times, if that.

 Thanks for pointing that out - I had also wanted to say that it was not a problem of poor breeding, though that is what people always jump to when genetic health issues are brought up. Late onset diseases without DNA markers are the hardest to control, especially in breeds which have shorter lifespans and/or reproductive issues where waiting to see isn't always possible.

 Since most Cavaliers are affected with the disease at some point in their life, there really is no breeding away from it within the current gene pool. Even the rare ones who are totally unaffected their entire life are unlikey to be non-carriers of  the disease, since it is so extremely widespread. Breeders really would need to outcross to another unaffected breed to bring in "normal" genes to really be able to breed away from this disease. It is extremely difficult to get enough breeders in any breed on board with something like that, although it was fairly common for breeders to do so even up to about 50 or so years ago.

 There was a project which a pointer was bred to a Dalmatian with the hopes to introduce a gene for normal uric acid levels into the breed. No purebred Dalmatians carry the gene for this and all are potential stone formers. No matter how much a breeder tries or how careful they are, they can't breed away from stone forming in Dals within the current gene pool. This project was approved by the AKC and DCA Board of Directors but ended up being a controversial subject within DCA membership, whcih later voted against registering the "backcross" Dalmatians. These dogs are still being bred in small numbers and in each about 50% have normal uric acid levels, which is a huge improvement for the breed. There was only ever one pointer used in the project and the Dals produced from it look and act like Dals - you'd never know they were "mixes". It is unfortunate that breeders wishing to use these dogs to improve health of their breed could not register or show the offspring of such breedings but it shows the issues which surround such subjects and which apply to all breeds.

 Read more about the Dal Backcross Project here: http://users.nbn.net/jseltzer/dal_poin.html

 I have a friend in cavaliers in Sweden and they're actually discussing a possible outcross project over there, which would be interesting to me.  They're modelling off of the recent clumber project going on there.

 Cavs are sweet dogs but like others have said have a lot of health issues, much more than most similar breeds.   It really makes me wary of getting them which is why they weren't a consideration at all for us.  

 I must put a plug in for papillons if you're interested in toy spaniels.  From what I've read, Cavs were recreated using the phalene so they're similar, but paps are probably the healthiest of the toy spaniels.  They're a little different than the other spaniels and there's some debate about what exactly went into them (probably some spitz and other little dogs).  They're an old breed so we'll never really know. They're sharper and more athletically built than the other toy spaniels but they're nowhere near independent like a spitz breed.

 They're awesome dogs though.   They're brilliant and very trainable.  They're very adaptable and wash and wear.  They can be quite a bit more active than most toys but even so they can get a lot of exercise indoors if need be (but they're really up for anything!) They're great dogs and wonderful sports dogs too.  I have to say I'm thoroughly addicted!  From your description of your ideal dog, though, they sound pretty close!

My second favorite toy spaniel is the Tibetan Spaniel.  They're a lot calmer than paps and more independent for sure.  They're very sweet dogs  from the ones I know.

Laurelin_429

 I have a friend in cavaliers in Sweden and they're actually discussing a possible outcross project over there, which would be interesting to me.  They're modelling off of the recent clumber project going on there.

 That is interesting and good news for the breed! I will be interested to hear about the results if this becomes a reality.

I've actually met a lot of cavalier breeders -- and at one time  spent literally a whole afternoon discussing genetics with one which is where I got the inside knowledge.  Her statistics were a bit different -- MOST of the heart problems that develop manifest in heart murmurs.  And typically not till age 3 -5.  And of course hundreds of years ago when the breed was forming no one had a clue about such stuff really.  But she'd had several live to an older age (like 16+ years) with NO heart problems, so the statistics saying "most" may not be accurate.  But she was lamenting how much they had to charge for them simply because there is SO few well bred ones and so very very few they can breed for such a short period of time after they've matured enough to likely be good heart prospects.   

Laurelin_429

My second favorite toy spaniel is the Tibetan Spaniel.  They're a lot calmer than paps and more independent for sure.  They're very sweet dogs  from the ones I know.

My old Prissy *LOOKED* like a Tibetan Spaniel -- she had all the characteristics (particularly that independant attitude -- they almost have more a terrier personality in some ways) but she was around about 15 years before they came to this country (back in the early 70's) and she was a peke/pom cross best I could figure.

But a person I worked with had 2 tibetans and gosh -- they used to make me miss Prissy SO much because they were so much like her.  They are on my short list of dogs it would be nice if "found" me LOL.

It's funny -- the only other dog I've ever really wanted -- but figured I'd never have -- was a pug.  And one of *those* found me LOL

tiffy

 Steph, we've already discussed this. You're getting a corgi, remember.

LOL, my DH agrees. He really loves them...which is weird because he's generally a retriever kind of guy.

 I have  a cavalier now. I totally love him. Yes, there is a major heart issue, and life span can be limited. I'm hoping Luke does well like his parents. At age 5, his mother was free of mitral valve disease, and at age 3, so was the sire.  Yes, I was shown the papers to prove that. I didn't think I would ever go small dog, but I made the decision I wanted something more portable, and apartment sized, shoudl I ever want to live in an apartment. I got him from a breeder who is involved in therapy work with her dogs, as I have some interest in maybe doing that with him. I paid $2500 for him, but so far so good, and I would absolutely go back to the same breeder for another dog. When I just got his registration certificate, she sent it along with a note that she had some more puppies. I don't have the time or the money for that though.

Laurelin - I can never figure out whether i just want to steal one from the left side of your line up, or from the right side ... or just grab one from the middle!!!

There's always the option of an English Toy Spaniel too.