Stephen's Cur Dog - Anyone Heard of Them?

 There are bearded BCs still being born in the UK. I know someone whose dog has a grandmother that is a beardie, and my instructor has a dog with a great-grandmother that is a beardie, and I know of still a third line based on a much-used dog whose mother was a beardie.

All of these dogs are fully registerable in the AKC, because they all "look" like Border Collies. But someone else I know actually did register a dog from one of these line - he is even further removed from his beardie heritage than the above dogs or lines - great-great or something. 

But when he actually showed up at a herding trial and it turned out he looks very "beardie" - someone complained (mostly likely because he carried all his classes) and they revoked his registration. Whatever to them. He's an awesome dog, runs in USBCHA Open and has qualified for championship level, has won many trials, and has run in the World Trials overseas.

This is James. Shave him and you'd never know.

Hey look! That one to the right of James looks like Jetta in the back! Someone suggested she might be a BC/Whippet. That's very possible. 

brookcove

 There are bearded BCs still being born in the UK. I know someone whose dog has a grandmother that is a beardie, and my instructor has a dog with a great-grandmother that is a beardie, and I know of still a third line based on a much-used dog whose mother was a beardie. 

 That is really interesting! I was so surprised when I first found out that Beardies originated as a type of BC - the show ones are so far very removed from that. That sort of makes me want to get a scruffy BC when I finally get one but it seems like they are pretty uncommon?

brookcove

But when he actually showed up at a herding trial and it turned out he looks very "beardie" - someone complained (mostly likely because he carried all his classes) and they revoked his registration. Whatever to them. He's an awesome dog, runs in USBCHA Open and has qualified for championship level, has won many trials, and has run in the World Trials overseas.

 Wow - can't believe AKC would pull his registration! That has never happened with the Belgians that I have heard. You see "wrong" colored or coated dogs at the AKC breed Nationals because those are the only Nationals they can be taken to. The dog may really be a Terv but their parents were registered Belgian Sheepdogs so they are registered as Belgian Sheepdogs too and have a DQ color.

brookcove

This is James. Shave him and you'd never know.
Hey look! That one to the right of James looks like Jetta in the back! Someone suggested she might be a BC/Whippet. That's very possible. 

  I just love the scruffy BC look!

  FWIW as far as Jetta being a lurcher goes, she didn't look sighthoundy enough in the pictures to me. Sighthound crosses tend to very strongly look like sighthounds - sighthound heads and sighthound bodies.The only one I saw that was a bit different was an APBT/Whippet but that dog still had a very sighthound body type, just with a wider head and a bit stockier. It is easy to find pictures of BC/Grey and BC/Whippet crosses because BCs are a common breed to cross sighthound with. Here are a few I found:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32657320@N00/307644627

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/nealey13/DSCF0022.jpg

http://www.sussexlongdogs.org.uk/large-lurchers.html

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/html/sections/lurchers/lurchers.html

 I have some old pictures of the original style when they were still the same breed, just different varieties. They basically look like James, but with a little less hair even. It's funny, apparently the "eye" in the BC and the gathering style of work came from "hairy mouthed" dogs that came from Spain with the fine-wooled breeds they used to upgrade native UK stock. They have turned the kennel club Beardie into a very upright worker, while the Border Collie retains the eye and gathering style, but the smooth faces have immersed the long haired faces. The original breed was actually a poodle style of coat - some Border Collies still have tightly curled coats and many have coats that wave as they get older.

Jetta is such a cut above in terms of trainability and being people oriented that it just baffles me. She is even more eager to please and clever at learning new things, than most of the Border Collies I've worked with. The size and agiity of a terrier, a BC brain, and the abilty of a sighthound to hang out until the opportunity arises to do something with her person. Three way cross maybe, I don't know.

brookcove

 I have some old pictures of the original style when they were still the same breed, just different varieties. They basically look like James, but with a little less hair even. It's funny, apparently the "eye" in the BC and the gathering style of work came from "hairy mouthed" dogs that came from Spain with the fine-wooled breeds they used to upgrade native UK stock. They have turned the kennel club Beardie into a very upright worker, while the Border Collie retains the eye and gathering style, but the smooth faces have immersed the long haired faces. The original breed was actually a poodle style of coat - some Border Collies still have tightly curled coats and many have coats that wave as they get older.

  My experience with Beardies (not a ton) it seems most don't have a working type temperament at all. The ones I have known are what I call "cheerleader dogs" - happy, silly, cute but kinda dingy. Not that they haven't been nice dogs, just certainly not bred for work.

brookcove

Jetta is such a cut above in terms of trainability and being people oriented that it just baffles me. She is even more eager to please and clever at learning new things, than most of the Border Collies I've worked with. The size and agiity of a terrier, a BC brain, and the abilty of a sighthound to hang out until the opportunity arises to do something with her person. Three way cross maybe, I don't know.

 Have you considered the possibility that she is a Borderjack? Sjhe sure looks like some of the ones I have seen. Their build/type is not as predictable as lurchers - some favor a more BC look, some a JRT look and some a bit of both. I'd say the coat Jetta has seems to be the most common coat type (some are wirey, not sure I've ever seen a long haired one though) and many are B&W. Jetta's temperament and athletic ability sounds like it could fit too:

http://www.tng-flyball.com/gallery2/v/dogs/shatter/Snowy_Shatter_04_2008.jpg.html 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfenton/452485417/

http://www.freewebs.com/synergeticsurge/rysk.htm

http://www.kellenkennels.com/BJPups08.html

http://www.bostonstragglers.com/doginfo.php?name=Sting&crn=030648&picture=images/dogs/sting/sting.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/miss_bunny/2223937222/in/set-72157600571982308/

 *thud*

Ok, so I never connected a Bearded Collie to a Border Collie (call me dense, but they don't seem to similar, anymore).  James melts me. OMG, what a cute dog! It'd be easy enough to shave his face and clip around the neck to make him look like a "regular" Border Collie, but WHY? He's so adorable with all that scruff!

Unfortunately as you know if I could represent Jetta as a Border Jack, I'd beating potential adopters off with a stick. But the few that have taken a look at her who know terriers say there's nothing terrierlike about her other than a superficial physical resemblance - and I've known many BJs and I have to agree. But if there were something else thrown in there, maybe? 

brookcove

Unfortunately as you know if I could represent Jetta as a Border Jack, I'd beating potential adopters off with a stick. But the few that have taken a look at her who know terriers say there's nothing terrierlike about her other than a superficial physical resemblance - and I've known many BJs and I have to agree. But if there were something else thrown in there, maybe? 

 I was thinking the same thing - a BJ would be easier to place in a performance home. But really looking at her pictures and especially video, that would be my best guess as to her heritage.

 I have seen and heard of BJs that had all variety of temperament and really some sound just like Jetta. Some are totally crazy too ;) They are a mix, so what temperament traits they get or don't get from each breed are not predictable. If you think there is a possibility that is what she is, you can say you believe she may be a BJ but that she comes from an unknown background so there could be another breed mixed in as well. With pet owners, most can't determine if the dog is or isn't what they are told and can't evaluate a dog on their own. Performance people are different though. They could check out Jetta's pictures, video, come visit her and determine for themselves if they feel she is a BJ. And if someone comes to see her and feels that she isn't a BJ, they could still be interested in her because of her temperament and ability.