Pitbulls?? Are they dangerous??? Change of focus!

Regardless of what we debate about in here the number one thing that needs to be changed is the people who aquire pit bulls. Now I may go off on a tangent here but try and stick with me and see if I havnt completely lost my mind but this is how I see it.......
A majority the pit bulls that cause problems in our communities are due to improper training and ownership. The next factor is the status of the dog, ie is it fixed neutred or what?
Next and I think is very important yet is the most overlooked issue is the type of pit bull that causes mass hysteria. When you think "pit bull" you think, well this....

THAT is not a pit bull! That dog specifically comes from the famous Razor's Edge line who is now under investigation becuase he openely admitted that he bred his pit bulls with AB, Olde English Bulldogs and Mastiff's. This is the same with Gotti line and a lot of other pit bull breeders. He is even trying to start his own kennel club, here
[linkhttp://www.allbreedkennelclub.com/]http://www.allbreedkennelclub.com/[/link]
and is registering them as American Bully's because once the UKC revokes all of these dogs memberships and strips them of any titles they may have aquired he is going to haveto have a back-up for all those P-O'ed people who have paid big bucks.
here is the UKC petition (please sign it)
[linkhttp://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/132176281?ltl=1160502342]http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/132176281?ltl=1160502342[/link]
 
Because you know breed standard does not support pit bulls of that weight, look at the poor guys elbows and just for arguements sake ( I DO NOT SUPPORT DOG FIGHTING) lets say we were talking about preserving the breed for it origianl purpose, dog fighting or bull/bear baiting. That dog is not going to be able to do a ounce of what it is supposed to do. It could not jump 10 feet in the air and latch onto a bull, if it were fighting a two hour round with a lean conditioned fighting game dog it would tucker out in 30 minutes. THAT is how ignorant this breeder is.
This to me is a real American Pit Bull Terrier

and most kennel clubs would agree
 
Now I'm not blaming everything on this breeder's irresponsibilty. But you cant deny  there is a HUGE connection with the introduction of this bigger type of pit bulls, the negative outlook from the public, and pit bull attacks in the past 15 years. I wasnt around in the 70's but I'm betting their wasnt too many 100lbs pits back then, coincidently the reputation of pit bulls was considerably brigher then it is today. Even more Dobie's and Rotties were looked down upon more then versus today. Its a cycle and with more people having access to media and the www it spreads the word faster but the breed changes from decade to decade.
So what is the solution? I'm afraid even if these overgrown hippos get registered and labeled something else it may just be too late. I would not be against registering my dog as a potential aggressive breed if it was a alternative to BSL. I would not be against spaying and nuetering ALL so called vicious breeds if they were not working, titled, or champion dogs. WHY? because the BYB's wouldnt be bale to make money off their crappy offspring and they would get arrested if their dog wasnt fixed. That would mean in several years you wouldnt open the paper and see "pit bull puppies $50", how often do you see full bred Dobies and Rotties for that price? You dont! The line could be cleansed, the hippos could be labeld for what they are "mutts" and we could work on getting our dogs reputation back regardless at how feeble those atttempts may be.
I dont believe in altering ANYTHING about the breed as it is other then temperment testing and culling any inherint human aggressive lines as was done in the past. I beleive in preserving the breed, jaw, head structure and all. A lot of people still use them as working dogs in the fields and for weight pulling. I truly 100& beleive the breed can be rpeserved in a postivie way and no matter what I will stand by my gir, her breed and what is right. Humans made these dogs they way they are and its our responsibility to amend what has been done to their reputation, To me the pride is worth the prejudice. Every ounce of critisicm is worth seeing my angel hall doggy butt across a open field, ears back, butt tucked, wild and intent on feeling the fresh air on her body!

 

ORIGINAL: Gnu
The scientist Dr. I Lehr Brisbin in the link i sent you say that pitbulls are no different from other breeds. Although I am a man of science, I have to object to some of the things he is proclaiming. The skull of the pitbull, is short and compact and thus he moves the center of gravity nearer the axis of rotation, when grabbing onto ex. a bulls nose and holds (or whatever he might grab onto). I cannot imagine that not being an advantage when fighting, and many other breeds with a long muzzle does not have this advantage. But this is all speculative. I got that from my previous link about the bulldog on moloss.com.

Wow. I love this discussion. People here seem to know what they are talking about, not all those "i need a strong dog to protect me" types....

THX.

Actually, Lehr is also the AKC delegate for the STCA.
I'm a little concerned as to what you think should be changed. The breed standard has been protected for many, many years. The problems don't exist due to the structure of the jaw or the power of the dog. The breed is in trouble due to people who are not educated on dog ownership or who are ignorant to the breed in general.

The change needs to be with ownership

I still get the biggest kick out of the flying dog pic.
 

I know that something needs to be done, but I don't think breeding the APBT out of the APBT is the answer.  As I'm sure you've all heard more than enough times, pit bulls were bred for hundreds of years not to ever, under any circumstances, bite a person.  Even when they were locked in a fight, the referee, a complete stranger, was able to help break them up.  It is not the temperament that is the problem, it is the lack of breeding for temperament.  I believe this is where the Gottiline and RE pits come in.  They have been bred only for looks, very rarely has temperament been involved in the breeding process.  They were supposed to be big and bad, they were not supposed to be nice and little attention was paid to how they acted.  Unlike those bred for the pit (I do not support dogfighting, knowing the history helps you understand what the dog is supposed to be.  I also do know that there are many fighting dogs nowadays that have bad temperaments, but that's another issue entirely) these dogs were not bred to a performance standard.  They did not need the temperament that was required for work.  They only needed to look nasty.  To save the breed, we need to do anything we can to stop these breeders, and any others that do not pay attention to their dogs' temperaments, from breeding more and more of these dogs.  We need to educate anyone who will listen about the dangers of backyard breeders and puppy mills.  I believe this is the only way we will be able to save these wonderful dogs.

I totally agree with you there Sheprano. The first dog you presented is definately not a pitbull and the second one is what I would call a "true" type pitbull. I think the folks dealing with those mixed breeds call it "ban dogs" i.e. a mix between a neo and a pit. I do not condone it in any way..
 
He he he. This bull terrier was in for a surprise when attacking a hedgehog... Just couldn´t stop laughing..

 
THX

I agree that pits bred by responsible breeders who really care about the future of the breed are great dogs; and if they are owned by people who also care. Unfortunately this has not been my experience. I live in "pit bull central"  The pits in my neighborhood are poorly bred and poorly trained, as in none. I have been attackecd twice by pits trying to get to my small dogs. I no longer can even walk my dogs in my own neighborhood because of so many loose dogs. There is no excuse for any owner to let their dogs run loose and dogs that can be dog aggressive are a menace. I  had one pit that ran loose all the time with no ID picked up. It was a fear biter, no doubt because it was never socialized. One person in my neighborhood who let his pit run loose actually told me he liked them because they were macho. Pits will always be in the news in a bad way until we can educated jerks like that or stop them from owning them.

If raised correctly and bred correctly, they can be very gentle and great pets. I knew a female pittie who lost her pup when he was young so she still had tits filled with milk, she fed a bird her milk instead! She would clean the bird gently with her tongue. I also knew a pittie who would sit in a field full of bunnies and try to lick them. Pit Bulls are not bad dogs. Period. In fact, they are awesome dogs!
Check out the pictures I embedded below, those are pictures of my boy, Buddy. He was a pure pittie and the most loving dog you would ever meet. I cannot believe my mom got rid of him - it breaks my heart. I saved him from being tied to a tree with beer bottles being thrown at him by drunk men. When I took him home and after a few days of him getting used to me, he was the sweetest dog and it was almost like he forgot about his horrible past. I love pit bulls, they are TRULY the best.

There's no reason to change the APBT. It's the people who are the problem! The people who buy a dog, then chain it outside for 12 hours a day and wonder why it's barking and lunging at passerby's.

First of all, that pic with the Bull Terrier with the needles in his face is NOT funny!
 
My dog happens to be one of those "needle in the haystack" Pits. She has THE best temperment, is super friendly with EVERYTHING, and isn't aggressive.
 
So, put a lot of work into your dog, socialize, train, etc, and you could end up with a GREAT dog. But it's not all training, and socializing, it's BRED temperment.
 
But like I said, I've got one of those "needle in the haystack" dogs, and I am VERY lucky to have her
 
And everyone on here who has Pitties, they are ADORABLE!

The "scary pitbull" topic can be summed up as animal racism.  Dog temperments run the gamut; each dog is an individual effected and shaped by its environment as well as genetics.  For the environment part; bring a dog up with love, and that is generally what it gives back.  As to genetics; the importance is in understanding a particular breed before before taking on the responsibility of ownership.
 
As to that picture.  There is no joy in looking at that.  I hope the dog recovered.