What She Said...

spiritdogs

I also think there is a huge difference between not respecting someone's right to think the way they want, and one's own right to disagree with them.  Disagreeing is *not* disrespectful in an of itself, and is a fundamental right in this country, thank goodness.  It is only when things get personal that it becomes non-decorous.  So, it would be fairly disrespectful, for example to call CM an idiot, but it is *not* disrespectful to call the methods he uses cruel, wrong, dated (pick an adjective).  That's an impersonal assessment of what he does, not who he is.  As far as who he is, I think he genuinely believes that what he does is right, and I think he is a charitable individual.  However, I also think his methods are often flat wrong, dangerous to the public, and not in sync with the scientific knowledge we have about canis familiaris.

I like your statement more than mine :)

Chuffy

ron2

side-bar: is that the same Douglas Adams that brought us the hitchkiker series?

 

That's right!  The trilogy in five parts.  If you haven't read Salmon of Doubt yet, you should.  Released after his death, all kinds of Adams snippets in there

Another side-bar. I've read the first four a few times. Hitchiker's Guide to the Galax. Life, the Universe, and Everything. Restaurant at the End of the Universe. So long and thanks for all the Fish. I've been meaning to read the fifth and haven't, yet.

Almost on topic, sort of. I teach "at risk" students. Poor or troubled or drop-outs or former gang members or "gangsta" wannabes. I've tried getting into their heads to motivate them and am somewhat successful with some. Right now, the main form of punishment is a write-up, which is usually sent to their GGI (guided group interaction, like a positive peer group chatfest). I see evidence that it doesn't always work or the write-ups I have turned in are not being followed up. We have a new center director who has come in sounding like a hard-charging rhino. But I have this one student who stole something from the student store while we were in there doing some work. He is still here. Then, on a clean-up day involving the whole trade school section, he refused to do any work and I put in a write-up on that. Still nothing, as far as I can see. He doesn't care and it is evidently not a punishment to him. My point is, a punishment is only valid if it means something to the subject and this subject doesn't care. I still haven't received my instructor credentials. Once I do, I can administer written tests, grading, a achievement record completion which is how they get out of here. But as soon as I turn my back one one and deal with another student, the ones I can't physically see are breaking rules right and left. I swear to anything ya'll think is holy, I would rather tackle CM's worst case, sometimes. Proof that dogs are often smarter than humans.

ron2

My point is, a punishment is only valid if it means something to the subject and this subject doesn't care. I still haven't received my instructor credentials.

This is so important with Humans and dogs. I like to tell the story about my older dog. For many years, he had learnt that  if he swiped the cat food off the floor, it meant he got a time out in the toilet. After a while, he figured out that the time out was worth it. I would wake up to a clatter of plates and see a fast moving Labrador moving towards the toilet, lay down and do this sigh . It never ceased to crack me up. We managed the situation in the end.

 I can sympatise with your problems. In my mid twenties, i was a Teacher at a trade school in my home country. I really came up the hard way, did trade, then technician then my profession. I did so much study and so much work and didn't suffer fools gladly , particually time wasters who had had a much more fortunate level of family support. I was pretty balanced, i had a chip on both shoulders....

Well, in my second class, a room full of 100 odd people, this student came in, cap on backwards, didn't acknowledge me, walked all over the desks and went to sit down. I guess i opened my mouth and let my tongue take a walk. He went red and then a shade of purple, and after that i had no trouble from him. The problem was that his mum was on the board of governers and in the end it cost me my job.. highly adverserial for me.

I think like dogs, there is a package. Many will tell you that rewards don't work, or that  time outs don't work or that everything doesn't work. Many seem to  want a very special case dog. Time outs don't work with dogs that want a respite form what to them is highly nagging and punishing owners, or with the punishement is habituated or with dogs that are highly independent or like any other punishment is not contingent and seems to them to be arbitrary.Or if you are dumb enough like me to forget to take the toys out of the toilet before you put your beloved poodle there...