Aggressive Puppy or Normal?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Aggressive Puppy or Normal?

    I grew up with the most mellow Beagle on the face of the earth, so I am a bit unsure of some of my puppy's behaviors. My parents assure me that it is normal, and our dog (the beagle) was "abnormal".

    I have an 11 week old female yellow lab who I adore. However, I worry about a couple of things...there are times when I pet her that she'll open her mouth to try and mouth/bite my hand. She chews and bites at me and my boyfriend (which I know is normal) and that doesn't worry me. Also, when I pick her up she makes a moan (growl?) sound; now this I am attributing to her getting bigger and being uncomfortable. She also makes the moan/growl sound at times when I pet her and when I wipe her paws off after we go outside. And she'll bite at my hands. I'll move her when she's sleeping (to her crate) and she'll make the same growl sound. Now, she's not showing teeth or anything but it disturbs me when I'm trying to pet her and such. She'll also snap at my finger/hand after I (very softly) hold her muzzle and say "no bite, good girl no bite" while petting her. She did not repsond ot the other methods that I've read of to stop biting. The method of yelping to scare them as their littermates would only made her think I was playing! So I heard that the last resort is softly holding the muzzle and praising them for not biting. (I'm still skeptical of this, though.) Also, when we walk, she doesn't always want to, she stops and sits and pulls away. Now, I'll stop turn and say: "Peyton, Come!" Until she comes or I'll drop the leash and she'll run to me immediately. Someone told me that that is a sign of an aggressive puppy (one who doesn't always want to walk.) So I've been wondering about this as well.

    But then she does things like crawl on my lap to sleep or chew her nylabone and I think...oh she doesn't hate me! And I can put my hands in her food bowl and move her bowl at any time and she is fine. I know, I sound like a paranoid puppy owner! I just grew up with an oddly mild puppy and well, am unsure of the line between aggressive puppy and puppy!

    Sorry for the crazy questions. I've always read about dogs and loved dogs, but no amount of reading can truly tell you the temperment of your pup! And since I'm raising her on my own I'm just worried that she'll come out happy, healthy, and well behaved.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Labs are among the mouthiest puppies on the planet.  My advice would simply be to get into a good positive reinforcement puppy class (find one at [linkhttp://www.ccpdt.com]www.ccpdt.com[/link] or [linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com]www.clickertraining.com[/link]) and wait - Labs are done with the chewing stage at about age 2...  But, your trainer will have some good hints on how to deal with it in the meantime.
    For now, you can teach her "easy".  Put some treats in your closed fist.  Let her investigate.  She may mouth, lick or nudge your hand.  Do nothing until she backs off.  Then, say "Yes!" "Easy".  Soon, you will be able to cue her to take it "easy".
    • Gold Top Dog
    I wouldn't say she is aggressive because she doesn't want to walk, just head strong.
     
    My puppy tries to be a mouther too.. I have had good luck so far with just "no bite".. actually I think the best result came by accident really. I was laying on the couch watching t.v. cuddling with her, absent mindedly petting her..she suddenly chomped down on my finger and before I knew it I yelled OUCH! and jumped Scared the crap out of her and biting hasn't been much of a problem since.
     
    How old was she when you brought her home? The issue I faced with mine was her being taken away from mom too early (6 weeks) and not being taught bite inhibition from mom and her litter mates.
     
    Just relax though.. she's just being a typical puppy. Get her in training and have fun with her! Oh, and pictures are a requirement!!! [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks guys. I figured I was too worried. I've tried the Ouch thing and it scared her at first, but then she thinks we're playing. Maybe I should incorporate walking away right after. I tried to upload a pic but it didn't work! Is there a mac compatible issue??
    • Gold Top Dog
    She was 8 weeks when I brought her home, but I talked to a couple of breeders who don't let thier pups out until 10 weeks for the extra socialization. It figures that she is headstrong! I'm stubborn as well, so that figures I would pick the headstrong one.

    I just get worried that if I'm too harsh with her about the no-bite she won't respond to me anymore. But she does have to respect me as well.

    I'm definatley going to try the "easy" idea...that sounds like it may work.

    Also when we walk, she'll at times try to mouth my leg...hmmm...
    • Gold Top Dog
    Head strong dogs are my favorite.  They recover quickly from reprimands and tend to be very out going as adults.  Stick with it...things will get better.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't recommend holding her muzzle shut, it sends her the wrong message, i.e. aggression.
    • Gold Top Dog
    thanks for the comments guys, much appreciated.

    I too am worried that holding her muzzle will send her the wrong message. I should have followed my gut when the vet told me to do that and when she snaps to tap her mouth away. I am not fond of those ways of "dealing" with her. I'll have to try some more passive ways since the ones I've done so far have been to no avail.
    • Puppy
    Bite Inhibition
     
     
    Puppies have painfully sharp little piranha like teeth, almost like hypodermic needles, fortunately the jaw muscles are extremely under-developed, One of the main reasons why you should never play tug with a young puppy is you could dislocate the jaw and misalign or damage the teeth.
     
     Nature has given them these underdeveloped muscles to enable pups to play-bite safely.  Whilst very young and still with his brothers and sisters and he bites too hard in play he gets blasted with a ear piercing "yelp" which makes him immediately back off, he waits a while then starts to play again, but a strange thing has happened, the biting is a bit softer. The same thing when feeding from the mother, the pup uses too much pressure she yelps and moves away end of milk bar. He is then gentler the next time round and a valuable lesson has been learned.
     
    This is nature#%92s way of inhibiting the force of their bite well before the jaw muscles start to form properly at around about 4.5 months, which also coincides with the time that the puppy teeth start dropping out and the new bigger more dangerous teeth start to come through. This is called the age of cutting.
     
    This learning process is known as “Bite Inhibition” it is a vital and important lesson and is the only reason why your puppies are born with those hideous teeth. This is how your puppy learns to inhibit the force of his bite and to control his jaws, It is a vital that he also learns to inhibit biting us humans. 

    I see many new owners who are told to stop all play biting, however this could potentially have far-reaching and disastrous consequences. If the pup is trained immediately never to play-bite, he will never have the chance to learn control over his jaws. Therefore, your puppy must initially learn that all biting whatever the circumstances must be done softly. Then you can start to teach him never to bite at all.
     
    This is how you should deal with this problem
     

    Permit the puppy to play-bite by allowing your pup to softly chew on your hand.  When he bites down a little harder than normal, "yelp" sharply and loudly, and turn your head away in rejection. Do not pull your hand away.  Let the puppy move away from the sound and your hand, (pulling your hand away will only encourage him to lunge towards the moving object) As an appeasement after your yelp the pup may come up and lick your hand, accept this gesture. Then allow the play to resume, but this time hopefully with a softer bite.  If the play gets a little rougher, "yelp" again, thus further confirming that any pressure is totally unacceptable. Repeat this exercise as often as possible. And like the New York police chief who had a zero tolerance to crime you do the same with any hard biting.

    You will find within a few days, that the biting turns into mouthing; you will have programmed your puppy into thinking that he must not exert any pressure whatsoever whilst mouthing because of your ultra sensitive reaction.  Now you can teach him the “OFF command to stop all mouthing.
     
    The “OFF” Command
     

    Put your dog on its 5 foot lead and the *Jingler. Take a treat, cheese, frankfurter, or puffed jerky is ideal, make the dog sit and hold the lead in your left hand and the treat in your right, offer him the treat and gently say Good "take it" do this at least five times, then offer the dog the treat and do not say anything. When the dog goes to take the treat turn your head sharply to the right and bring your hand with the treat up to your chest giving a slight tug on the lead with your left hand  making the Jingler tinkle and gently say "OFF"  the Jingler really helps the dog focus.
     
    What you are actually saying is by using the word good this acts as a target word similar to a clicker and it acts as confirmation that the behaviour is correct, the “take it”  is a permission command you are effectively saying, this is my bone,  I am prepared to share it but only when I give permission, the permission is “take it” You are also training control of the greatest resource possible “FOOD

    Repeat the "OFF" command until the dog turns his head away, Watch for the movement and the body language and as soon as he does this say "Good Dog, "take it" in a praising tone then give him the treat, keep repeating the exercise until the dog naturally turns his head away when you offer him a treat.
     

    Keep the dog on a lead in the house (you must always be present when the lead is on). When he jumps up or tries to bite the children or you grab the lead and say "OFF” for the bite and “OFF SIT" for the jump, giving a slight corrective jerk on the lead at the same time. Do not praise the dog when he stops you are only praising the bite or the jump. Repeat exercise until he stops jumping up and biting.

    If the above does not appear to be working as the puppy is so insistent and is continually biting you or your kid#%92s hands and feet then get some bitter apple and spray their hands and feet for a few days. However it must be bitter apple as it is the only chew or bite deterrent that really works. All the others I have tried are just a waste of money.
     

    *The Jingler is a simple device I have personally developed, that uses sound therapy, it works by distracting your dog momentarily from what it is doing and makes it concentrate on you. The repetition of the jingle and either a change of direction or a command conditions your dog so that it associates the jingle with a movement or command, it aids concentration and confirms your training command. It can be used for many behaviours like lunging, jumping up, walking to heel and barking. It can also be used in some cases for both interdog and human based aggression.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I talked to a couple of breeders who don't let thier pups out until 10 weeks for the extra socialization.]
     
    The optimum socialization window is between 8 and 12 weeks of age.  The reason many breeders wait is that pups have an initial "fear imprint period" at about age 9 weeks.  In some pups, you barely notice it, but in some it is quite pronounced.  Bad stuff that happens to the pup at that time can affect the dog for life.  Something as simple as a stranger reaching over their head to pat them, can make them fear similar strangers for a long time - that's how we can get dogs who hate uniforms, or baseball caps, etc.
     
    I have no problem with Dog Listener's suggestion about addressing the play biting issue.  And, I second Glenda's suggestion that you not get physical with the dog - it really isn't necessary and does cause more harm than good.  Your vet is perpetrating some antiquated ideas, and I hope he is trained better in terms of medicine than behavior. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Actually, I'm changing vets because I didn't feel comfortable with him. I just had a bad feeling when we were there and the way he dismissed my questions bothered me as well. (He would walk out of the room mid-question.) After my visit, I ended up hearing similar stories from people in my complex and have followed a couple suggestions and found a better vet.

    I will try the suggestion from doglistener, thank you. The only other thing that really worries me is the growling sound she makes. I've heard that puppies have a "play growl" sound, but to me this sounds different. It's definately not playful and I don't like it.

    I definatly believe it about the 9 wk imprint. Last week, a group of boys thought it would be funny to scare the heck out of her on their scooters/skateboards/bikes. They rode *rightnext* to her almost running us down whilst yelling. Yesterday she just barked/growled at a boy on a scooter and she won't walk if she sees a person riding a bike. The boy got off the scooter and she was her usual friendly tail-wagging self, as she is with all strangers.

    I know I have to find a solution for the biting/growling that works because I know that consistency is key to making sure they respect you and making sure the new teaching sticks. (I just have this huge fear of having a "mean" dog because of course I'm hoping for a gentle, sweet best friend!)
    • Bronze
    Good for you for seeking and appreciating the great advice you have gotten here.  One additional thing I have experienced for positively reinforcing good behavior while out on walks, is to bring a special treat when my boy is responding nicely to formerly "scary" things.  If boys on scooters/skateboards/bikes evoke barking and negative reactions, then when she is a "friendly tail-wagging" girl as a response, there is no better reinforcement than a delicious treat from your hand rewarding her happy, confident self!  It goes a long way!
    • Puppy
    Oh why oh why do people thing they can frighten pups at this age. These skate boarders have frightened your pup during its first fear period which peaks between 8 and 10.5 weeks.see below for part of the critical periods.
     
    Pups also have a second fear/hazard avoidence period between 6 and 14 months this when it starts lasts 3 weeks. I wrote the critical periods to show just how important what we do during the pups initial learning curve and early weeks are the whole article ecplains what happens right up to adulthood.
     
    Critical periods in your puppy#%92s psychological growth:
    0 to 7 Weeks
    Neonatal, Transition, Awareness, and Canine Socialisation. Puppy is with mother and littermates up to at least seven weeks. During this period, your puppy learns about social interaction, play, and inhibiting aggression from its mother and littermates. Puppies must stay with their mother and littermates through this critical period. As the puppies learn the most important lesson in their lives--they learn to accept discipline. It is at this time that they also learn not to toilet in the nest.

     
    7 to 14 Weeks
    Human Socialisation Period. The best time to take a puppy home is 7 weeks onwards then you have nine whole weeks to work with the dog over this incredibly important period. The puppy now has the brain waves of an adult dog, but his attention span is short. This period is when the most rapid learning occurs. Learning at this age is permanent so this is a perfect time to start training, but make it fun. This is also the time to introduce the puppy to things that will play an important part in his life.  Different people, places, animals, hoovers, washing machines and unusual sounds, in a positive, non-threatening way.

     
    8 to 10  Weeks
    Fear Imprint Period. Whilst the Pup is going through human socialisation is will also go through an important fear/hazard avoidance period. Avoid frightening the puppy during this period. Any traumatic, frightening or painful experience will have a more lasting effect on the puppy than if it occurred at any other time in its life. This period if you do not handle it correctly could give your dog a lasting fear of say traffic or other frightening noises or events. Never ever praise or sympathise with your pup when it is showing fear. This only serves to confirm the fear.

     
    11 to 16 Weeks
    Seniority Classification Period. Puppy starts to cut teeth and apron strings! At the end of this period and begins testing its position in the family unit. You must discourage all biting; the dog should have started to learn and understand bite inhibition by this time! It is important that you are a strong and consistent and fair leader The period between 0 and 16 weeks is the most important period in your dog#%92s life. He will learn more during that short space of time than at any other time in his lifetime. Other windows of opportunity for learning will open during your dog#%92s life.
    Other windows of opportunity for learning will open for your dog. However, what you see at 16 weeks without extensive training and behavioural modification is about what you are going to get as an adult. Therefore, work hard on giving your pet the best start in life.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    The only other thing that really worries me is the growling sound she makes. I've heard that puppies have a "play growl" sound, but to me this sounds different. It's definately not playful and I don't like it.

     
    what else is she doing when she is making this noise? ears, teeth, eyes, tail, fur on neck, body posture?  that will give you more of a clue about what she is trying to say with this noise. Dogs do make all sorts of weird noises that could be called growling, but aren't aggressive in any way.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I definatly believe it about the 9 wk imprint. Last week, a group of boys thought it would be funny to scare the heck out of her on their scooters/skateboards/bikes. They rode *rightnext* to her almost running us down whilst yelling. Yesterday she just barked/growled at a boy on a scooter and she won't walk if she sees a person riding a bike. The boy got off the scooter and she was her usual friendly tail-wagging self, as she is with all strangers.

     
    You are lucky that she seems to have made the association that those scooter things are bad - she will see fewer scooters than boys in her lifetime.  At any rate, if this were my puppy, I would immediately borrow any young boys I could find, and ask them to help train her to like small boys.  This is how it works...the boy comes slowly to within about 3-4 feet of the pup (no direct eye contact, no reaching out to pat).  You tell your pup "say hello" and have the boy toss a treat onto the ground where the pup can reach it.  She learns that young boys are cool, he isn't in danger.  Win-win.