Fighting!!

Argh!   Sisters and Littermates!!!!!!  Oh dear - multi bitch households can be difficult like that! In particular when the two dogs are so close in age, size and type (which being littermates they will be).  My only suggestion is to try another trainer for a second assessment of the situation but I suspect you can never rest easy that this issue is solved and will have to resign yourself that they will have to be continually carefully managed throughout their lives if you want to keep them together.
 
Do be wary of advice that you should promote whichever dog seems dominant to help them "widen the gap" without scrapping.  This can be hard to diagnose and if you get it wrong you will exacerbate the problem further.  It is particularly hard with bitches because it is much more fluid for them than it is for males - frequently a bitch who appears "dominant" in one situation will sit back and let another take charge in another situation so knowing who to support at any given moment is very difficult.
 
While they are both in your care, employ NILIF if you haven't already, stay calm (can't be emphasised enough) and stay in control of all resources and good things in life to promote yourself in their eyes.  Then at least they are not jockeying for the position of "alpha" because it is already taken.
 
Please please please be careful.  If it were me I would be seriously considering re-homing one of them, which I don't do lightly.

Good advice Chuffy.

If these two are establishing a pattern of fighting right now, then in all likelihood this pattern will continue.  Unfortunately when bitches fight it's not ritual posturing-it's very real.  Without seeing these altercations, I cannot make a judgement as to the reasons behind the squabbles.  The most important thing now is to carefully manage the situation.  NO unsupervised time alone for the two of them.  Keep them in their crates when they cannot be supervised.  Never outside together, no walking together.  Unfortunately, as Chuffy said, if it were me, I would also begin looking for a new home for one of them.

Bummer, well i am not putting in the big kennel outside together (Doggie Condo)  or in same crate.  I have allowed outside play and so far no more bad fights.  We are going to spay next week and then make a decision.  Maybe a tough one. TY.

SEPERATE THEM NOW.  Seperate crates.  Feed in crates.  Use a visual barrier between crate for times when you are not home.  LOTS of obedience practice esepcially under distraction.  Outside on a different schedule.  The NILF strategies all the time.  Crate the dogs before answering the door, or put one out, the other on lead in the house so you dont develop door problems.  The option of rehoming is also a possibility.  If they developed true "dislike" prepare to live essentially seperate lives with each dog.

Well IMO you just have to let them know you dont like that behavior, your dogs have a really high chance to live together and no need of you living 2 lives with 2 different dogs, it does not matter is they all females or males or one and one, you wont need to re home any of them at all, do you set rules, boundries and limitations in your house?

I agree that your situation is a little bit complicated to be handle by what you read in a forum, look for a behaviorist to help you, only by being there with you someone  can tell you exactly what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong

Yes you can live a happy life with all the dogs you want, if you want 2 or 50, it does not matter, it is possible

In the mean time there is a thread in this forum with a couple videos of a professional handling cases like yours:

[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=238720&mpage=1&key=𺒀]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=238720&mpage=1&key=𺒀[/link]

Espencer, this person has already enlisted the help and advice of a trainer and 2 other professionals (vets) who have given them a much more realistic prognosis.

I'm afraid that in a case like this one, it takes a heck of a lot more than simply letting them know you don't like the behaviour. 

Maybe Cesar Millan could take in these two girls and rehab them without a second thought, but it doesn't mean everyone is capable of doing that.  It depends on the level of experience and what you're comfortable with. 

In addition, Cesar Millan has said that changing your dogs behavior is like going on a diet.  In truth there is no quick fix, you have to make lifestyle changes and you have to stick to them every day, if you slip you lose the waistline (or, of course, in their case, if you slip one of the dogs could get seriously hurt).  I have to say on this score I agree with the man whole heartedly. 
 
Aggression cannot be unlearned.  The best the family can hope for is successful management of the situation so that a serious fight does not occur and neither dog gets hurt.

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Espencer, this person has already enlisted the help and advice of a trainer and 2 other professionals (vets) who have given them a much more realistic prognosis.

I'm afraid that in a case like this one, it takes a heck of a lot more than simply letting them know you don't like the behaviour. 

Maybe Cesar Millan could take in these two girls and rehab them without a second thought, but it doesn't mean everyone is capable of doing that.  It depends on the level of experience and what you're comfortable with. 

In addition, Cesar Millan has said that changing your dogs behavior is like going on a diet.  In truth there is no quick fix, you have to make lifestyle changes and you have to stick to them every day, if you slip you lose the waistline (or, of course, in their case, if you slip one of the dogs could get seriously hurt).  I have to say on this score I agree with the man whole heartedly. 

Aggression cannot be unlearned.  The best the family can hope for is successful management of the situation so that a serious fight does not occur and neither dog gets hurt.

Well the OP came to ask for alternatives and i gave one, i feel she came to this forum for hope and there is hope, if not then why to come here to hear what they told her already?

Of course there is not going to be a quick fix but the results will show sooner, so lets give a little bit of credit to the OP and think that those lifestyle changes dont have to be extreme ones (because they are not), if there is an error the dogs wont go back right away to point one in less than a second

Aggression can be unlearned for sure, aggression is an ustable state of mind that any dog likes to have, all of them would rather to go back and being calm and the human can help them to do it, maybe you dont know some techniques that can help and i do, thats why i'm saying it can be done, positive only methods dont always work in some situations, behaviorists methods are successful here, and no, the OP does not have to use violence to achieve that

So before we turn this in a debate and forget about the OP lets leave it that way, there is hope, there is techniques that are capable to achieve a happy pack and lets work out all the options before giving away one of the dogs which is the last thing the OP wants

Lets stop being so negative about it, if the OP wants to is possible, if some of you have mental walls raised by yourselves then it wont

I would never take a chance with 2 bitches. ESP if they are littermates. Siblings can develop a special and long lasting hatred of each other.
 
The advice to separate them...which is a solution...or rehome one...is something I'd consider as well.
They are under stress everyday if they truly do not like one another...IMO.
 
You mention you have kids, so I will also say the middle of a bitch fight is a VERY unsafe place for the kiddos to be...and terrifying to the point of trauma...for them to witness.

Very very well said IMHO

I lived with three cocker bitches.  Two of them periodically mixed it up and it wasn't fun.  Didn't happen often, and it was endable, but, DH was seriously bitten one time stopping a fight, and management is truely all you can do.
 
While spaying might help, female dogs are like female humans.....we get ticked about something and HAVE to handle it anyway that we can.  And we aren't very good about giving up a grudge.
 
Yes, you can do this, but it takes separation and VERY careful management.  And one of those girls might just be happier in another home where she is not feeling the need to prove her status, or being constantly jumped on.  If you had sisters, think back to the awful fights you had with them.....I was sooooo glad when all of mine got married and moved away and I didn't have to take crap from them anymore.  So one or both of these dogs are probably feeling the same way.  The bottom line is always doing what is best for the dogs.

Respectfully,  when large dogs are fighting (especially bitch litter mates)  a rigirous management and training program needs to be in place to prevent practice of the current aggression behaviors.  These dogs have already established a pattern.  It is necessary to change the environment significantly to impact a behavior change that would enable the family members human and canine to live peacefully. 

I feel that the advice offered on a discussion board should promote the most conservative approach possible.  We did not see the fights, we do not see the interactions and behaviors of the individuals involved.  We do not know the physical lay out of the home and yard.  These dogs are already working with some dog "folk". 

"First do no harm" in this case means (to me), we (the community of this board) need to be very careful about what we offer as suggestions.  They should be designed to allow someone with less skill to be able to handle the situation.

Seperating the dogs is the most conservative approach during a retraining phase

I have to agree with the posters who advise complete seperation and possible rehoming. You deserve a great deal of credit for not taking this situation lightly and working with professionals from the start. It seems these girls are pretty young and for this problem to be so serious at this time doesn't bode well for the future.
 
By all means continue to work with them and have them spayed. At that point if you have to opt for re-homing you will be sending a nicely trained, spayed dog into a new home. At a point a year or so into the future there's a possibility you could add another male into your home. That would depend on how things go.
 
When my mother died, we had to re-home her dog. Despite significant efforts at training he absolutely couldn't be around other dogs. It also had the potential to turn our other male, who excels at dog relationships into a permanently dog aggressive boy.  Mom's dog  is excellent with children and found a home where he is cherished. He is much happier in a situation where he excels and my other two dogs breathed big sighs of relief. We later added a third dog and they all do fine together.

I would say to find a behaviorist, those are situations that a trainer cant deal with because is more from a psychological  point of view, trainers rarely have knowledge in that department

How true.