Nikon and house training.

    • Gold Top Dog

     If your gonna show him he is gonna have to get used to being in a crate right? Better let him get used to it now!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Liesje

    What did she do in the crate?  Nikon throws and absolute FIT in the crate if he is awake and everyone else is moving around.

     

    I would give her frozen kongs and stuff she could play with if she wanted. She did pitch a fit at first, but the rule was "tough kid -- your brother and sister have earned their freedom and you've got to learn the ropes. You've got nice things in there to do if you want, and if you don't then take a break and nap."

    She learned pretty quickly that howling and throwing a fit didn't work. Once she was quiet I would let her out, do a "business trip" (potty break), play with her, then back in the crate. Basically made the whole thing very repetitive and always had good stuff waiting for her in the crate. A lot of the time she would watch Rosco and Lexi and eventually zonk out.

    When she did fall asleep, I would let her rest a while, then wake her up to do the potty break, etc. Rinse, repeat.

    It may be helpful to put him on a rigid schedule, including through the night. So he learns you control when things happen. If he wakes you up in the night to go out, then it's reinforcing that he controls getting out of the crate and outside. Those two trips a night may be enough to reinforce his thinking that he controls access out of the crate and the house.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Chuffy

     I would allow him some freedom indoors straight after he has eliminated outside.  Example, he goes outside, to pee, he gets, praise, reward, gets to be loose, play etc. then he comes back inside - quite quickly, so he can have some time loose indoors, having only JUST pee'd and relatively "safe".

    Personally, I would insist that he eat/chew IN THE CRATE.  Anything NOT in the crate is not to be eaten/chewed.  It also means:

    • He associates the crate with "good stuff"
    • The other dogs get a break from him 
    • He gets REST, which all pups need, despite that fact that they may appear to prefer to carry on playing.

     

    This is exactly how it is done, unless the weather is nice and they play outdoors instead of in.  Basically, we get up at 6:30 and go out to potty.  This is about a 10 minute potty since sometimes he goes 2-3 times.  Then, I put him back in his bedroom crate with his breakfast so I can shower.  By then he is awake and ready to throw a fit if he's not already.  We go out to potty again and then I let him run around loose indoors (and by loose he only has access to the living room and kitchen) while I finish getting ready.  One more potty as I leave and then he goes in his living room crate.  I come home either at 11 or noon.  Immediately we go out to potty (I carry him so he can't run off and potty in the house).  Again this is an extended potty outside since he will go several times.  If the weather is nice I let them play for 20 mins or so.  Once he has pottied again we go in so I can eat lunch.  I either keep him free in the living room or have him in his pen depending on what I'm doing.  I leave after 50 minutes.  Now starting Monday a girl will be coming at 3:30.  When I leave after lunch I will crate all THREE dogs (typically Coke and Kenya are loose).  She will come in and take Nikon out and then wants to play with him or walk him for half hour or so.  I've asked her to make sure he potties again before she leaves and put him back in his crate by luring with treats.  At 5:15 I get home and again we all go out for extended potty and play if the weather is nice.  Then, all three dogs eat (Kenya and Coke in their crates, Nikon either in his pen or I hand feed him and use this meal for training/clicker).  Usually Nikon does not finish all his kibble so I scatter the rest in his pen and crate and he can hunt for it later.  Anytime Nikon is NOT in his pen or crate they are closed so that 1) Kenya and Coke cannot steal his things and 2) I leave all his food chewies and treats IN there so he starts to build up a WANT to get back in there after playing.  After dinner he is either free to play in the house or we do something like go on a walk, take the dogs to the park, etc.  Around 7 or so I put him in his pen for a nap/rest.  Usually he whines and barks a bit, then spends a good bit of time working on a bully stick, and then sleeps for an hour or so.  If I need to leave the house to run an errand, this is when I do it.  8:30/9ish he comes back out of the pen and is allowed to play in the house.  Usually at this time he wants to wrestle with Coke and play with toys.  This is when I do rag work with him and maybe some more training with kibbles.  10pm we go to bed.  This time, and ANY time he goes in his pen or crate, I bait it with a few kibbles, Zuke's treats, and his food chews.  Like you say his food chews are never available unless he is in the crate or pen.  The times when he is allowed out in the house (after dinner and after his evening nap) I am taking him out to potty no longer than every half hour AND anytime he appears to be sniffing around or pausing at the door.

    So based on the schedule that has worked itself out, he is really only wide awake and playing for an hour in the morning, lunch time, afternoon with the puppy helper, after dinner, and between the evening nap and bed.  He is sleeping very well at night so I assume this is enough exercise/awake time, but I guess I am reluctant to crate him even more at these times but he is my first pup so what do I know. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Hope you don't mind, but I broke out the schedule to add a few tips. Not meat as judgment in anyway, I just remember how many millions of questions I had a day when Luna was little (she was my first pup since I was a child). I think I e-mailed her breeder and my trainers on a daily basis. LOL. Stick to your guns, be consistent and he'll be fine.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Get up at 6:30 and go out to potty.  This is about a 10 minute potty since sometimes he goes 2-3 times.  Then, I put him back in his bedroom crate with his breakfast so I can shower. By then he is awake and ready to throw a fit if he's not already.

    Let him pitch a fit. Then bring him his breakfast in his crate (use a treat dispensing toy) and go back to getting ready.

    We go out to potty again and then I let him run around loose indoors (and by loose he only has access to the living room and kitchen) while I finish getting ready.  One more potty as I leave and then he goes in his living room crate

    As long as he's not having accidents during this free time, then keep it up. If he is, keep him in the same room where you are getting ready and break that time up with trips outside.

    I come home either at 11 or noon. Immediately we go out to potty (I carry him so he can't run off and potty in the house).  Again this is an extended potty outside since he will go several times.  If the weather is nice I let them play for 20 mins or so.  Once he has pottied again we go in so I can eat lunch.

    If he goes this can lead to play (what you are already doing), if not, back into the crate kid. Although, it sounds like this part of the day isn't an issue.

    I either keep him free in the living room or have him in his pen depending on what I'm doing.

    This is a great time for the ex-pen. He's not likely to go inside after being outside for a while and you can still eat, move around the house without too much trouble. If he is going in his pen during this time, I would crate him. Break it up with trips outside where you carry him. If he doesn't go, he can go back in his ex-pen. Do you feed him lunch too? Maybe eating 3x/day would help.

    I leave after 50 minutes.  Now starting Monday a girl will be coming at 3:30.  When I leave after lunch I will crate all THREE dogs (typically Coke and Kenya are loose).  She will come in and take Nikon out and then wants to play with him or walk him for half hour or so.  I've asked her to make sure he potties again before she leaves and put him back in his crate by luring with treats.

     Great plan!

    At 5:15 I get home and again we all go out for extended potty and play if the weather is nice. 

    Same rule as when you come home from work mid-day. If he goes, then play time and walks, if not, back into the crate for 3 minutes, then try again. I am guessing he always goes when you get home from work, so this is probably a none issue. If it were me, I would have him on leash, and would be sure there is no play before pottying.

    Then, all three dogs eat (Kenya and Coke in their crates, Nikon either in his pen or I hand feed him and use this meal for training/clicker).  Usually Nikon does not finish all his kibble so I scatter the rest in his pen and crate and he can hunt for it later.

    Right on. 

    Anytime Nikon is NOT in his pen or crate they are closed so that 1) Kenya and Coke cannot steal his things and 2) I leave all his food chewies and treats IN there so he starts to build up a WANT to get back in there after playing.

    Maybe rotate what toys he has in there. If they are all out some dogs get bored with them, but if a "new" one appears each time he goes in the crates, thank might help build the value of the crates. (i.e. every time I come in here there is a new toy -- how cool!) You could keep them in a bag on top of the crate or nearby so they are off limits the rest of the time. This also means he can get rewarded for going near the crate, in the crate, etc.

    After dinner he is either free to play in the house or we do something like go on a walk, take the dogs to the park, etc. 

     Keep it up, so long as you are able to watch him like a hawk and scoop him up when he stops to sniff in the house.

    Around 7 or so I put him in his pen for a nap/rest. Usually he whines and barks a bit, then spends a good bit of time working on a bully stick, and then sleeps for an hour or so. If I need to leave the house to run an errand, this is when I do it.

    A good time for him to finish the last bit of food he didn't finish at dinner.

     8:30/9ish he comes back out of the pen and is allowed to play in the house. Usually at this time he wants to wrestle with Coke and play with toys.  This is when I do rag work with him and maybe some more training with kibbles.

    Guessing you are doing this already, but potty break and into the crate if he doesn't go. If he does, then playtime with brother Coke or you. Lots of play until bed time.

    10pm we go to bed. This time, and ANY time he goes in his pen or crate, I bait it with a few kibbles, Zuke's treats, and his food chews.

    Get him in the crate first (pick him up if need be), then treat him. This goes against what I think about training for the most part, because he's not opting in, but I think a few days of just putting him in there will help him connect the dots that it is expected of him, not a negotiation, and once he's there he gets a treat that he doesn't get any other time of day (little wet food or something).

    Like you say his food chews are never available unless he is in the crate or pen.  The times when he is allowed out in the house (after dinner and after his evening nap) I am taking him out to potty no longer than every half hour AND anytime he appears to be sniffing around or pausing at the door.

    You've got that under control. 

    So based on the schedule that has worked itself out, he is really only wide awake and playing for an hour in the morning, lunch time, afternoon with the puppy helper, after dinner, and between the evening nap and bed.  He is sleeping very well at night so I assume this is enough exercise/awake time, but I guess I am reluctant to crate him even more at these times but he is my first pup so what do I know. 

    I think it may be that the schedule has worked itself out, largely by what his needs are, not what his schedule should be. And you may need to turn it around so it's a schedule that he adapts to. Yes, he is small and has needs, but you are clearly taking care of those, and he is capable of learning the program in this format, since it attends to all his needs.


    • Gold Top Dog

    All pups seem to take to crate training a little differently.  Some are easy and some are not.  I think he just has to learn that the crate is his safe place where he eats and has his toys.  As has been said, if you continue to let him whine and cry his way out, it will only take longer and will delay his housetraining.  I never let any puppy have 20 minutes of play time inside unless I was right on top of him.  The moment he stopped playing for even one second, scoop up and take outside and then back inside and in the crate with something yummy to chew on or play with.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Just to clarify/answer, playing before pottying has never been an issue.  Even going out every 10-20 minutes, it's rare that he doesn't immediately go, and if it's one of the rare times he does not have to go it's obvious right away and I take him back in.  Generally he runs out, goes, plays, goes again, and then depending on how long *I* want to be outside, will keep playing and go once more or I wait until he has gone again and then go in.

    He doesn't have to be forced into the crate, he always goes right in b/c he knows there's a bully stick or his leftovers or something in there.  Now, once he's in he usually throws a fit (which results in me saying "no!" and ignoring him or leaving the room), but he doesn't have to be forced in or lifted in (though in the middle of the night I carry him out/in the house so be default he is placed back in by me, but he's not squirming and sqealing).

    I don't ever let him out because he is barking or whining.  There are times where he happens to already be barking and I HAVE to let him out or move him based on our schedule (ie, I need to leave for work, I can't wait 30 minutes for him to bark himself to sleep and THEN move him).  

    • Gold Top Dog

     FWIW, Ena *hated* her crate, when I got her. She also hadn't been taught to eat meals. She'd always been free fed. She was about 3 1/2 months, so it took a little time to break her of her dirty habits, but now... She RUNS to her crate at a whisper, and scarfs her meals when they're placed in front of her. She hasn't barked in a crate (except in an emergency potty situation) in at least 2 1/2 months, and the screaming ceased about a month after I got her. She will sleep in a crate, in a busy place (like a dog show or grooming shop) with no issues, now. It *does* happen, and it's a major relief when it does. You're doing everything right. All the special stuff goes in the crate, and it does become a happy place.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jennie, Nikon was free-fed too.  When I got him the breeder wasn't sure exactly how much he was eating b/c all the pups would eat, often in a large double expen outside.  She sprinkles food in the grass to encouraged their hunting and tracking.  Still Nikon prefers to eat his food scattered.  For instance, he will ignore a meal in his bowl for hours but if I pour some on the ground he starts eating it.  So we're trying to get away from that and have more structured meals.  I still do it a little bit though b/c it helps with the crate training.  I toss in a few handfuls and he scavenges around in the crate.  Actually tonight he threw a barking fit to get IN his bedroom crate.  I had put in his chews and scattered some food roll pieces.  That smelled really good to him and he demanded to go in, lol.

    He is doing awesome at night.  We're now setting our alarm b/c he will sleep through the night but pee the instant he wakes in the morning so we're taking him out twice even though we wake him from sleeping.

    Still working on the house training.  There were several accidents today.  One was my fault.  I let him out of the pen and then started sorting his toys, not remembering he just had a long nap.  Duh.  Another time he whined for seriously 2 seconds and I was halfway between the door and the couch when he started peeing.  So I try but his "warning" is not enough time for me to even open the door sometimes.  He pees so often though, even with 2-3 accidents in the house per day we're still at 90% or better going outside because we go out 15+ times a day.