I don't understand why...

DPU

brookcove

When you as a general (not specialized like me) rescue, look at dogs in the shelter, and you have one slot you can fill, you have to ask yourself the following question:

What will it take to make this dog adoptable?  Then you look at each dog and take a best guess as to the answer.

Dog A:   A bath

Dogs B-J:  Vet care, a week of basic training

Dogs K-Z:  A few months, or years, of intense training

The hard reality is that if you take Dog A, you can bathe that dog and have it in a pre-approved home within a reasonable amount of time - maybe a week.  After that you can go back for dogs in the B-J group, and begin helping them.  You start with the ones in danger and work your way through.

I see you making a quick assessment as to which dog fits in which category.  Not possible to get it right IMO.  My proven time-line program takes a shelter dog and permanently keeps the dog out of the shelter system.  Your Darwin style approach of Natural Selection has the element of risk of the dog being returned to the shelter system.  Which way has more of an impact?  I know in my way, I am not rushed, I have no guilt from choosing, no dog gets PTS because I chose "K-Z", and fostering and rehabbing is much more enjoyable and makes you want to continue. 

Most of the fosters in our program come from the south, Ohio, and now we are taking some from the west.

Well, JMHO, but unless you are taking ALL of them, your arguments make no sense.  It is the dogs that have SA, DA, and food aggression that not only end up back in the system, they get traumatized, and the unsuspecting people who adopted them get traumatized, too.  IMO, many of those people will never go back to a shelter again.  I see it all the time - the next time, they buy a puppy so that they won't have to deal with "other people's problems" again.  Sure, you are successfully rehoming dogs from Ohio, the south and the west.  Those are the nice hunting, herding, and hound mixes for the most part.  Why aren't you rehabbing the Akita, Shepherd, Pit Bull, and Chow mixes from New Jersey?  Because, my friend, even you don't want to deal with a truly serious case.  Stop blowing wind and patting yourself on the back and realize that while you save the few dogs that come through your door, there are people all over the country doing the same thing, but they still can't keep up with the flow.  Otherwise, the site we found Sheba on would not have to exist, and I would be agreeing with you.

spiritdogs

It is the dogs that have SA, DA, and food aggression that not only end up back in the system, they get traumatized, and the unsuspecting people who adopted them get traumatized, too.  IMO, many of those people will never go back to a shelter again.

Offering the same old comments tells people that to help a shelter dog is pointless.  I have had a few of the SA, DA, and food aggression dogs here.  For some reason the food aggressive in the dog that comes here disappears right away.   I describe a proven workable fostering model that continually brings in shelter dogs and places dogs so the dog is permanently out of the shelter system....and it is scruffed at.  I suppose if I was not into fostering dogs, stood on the sidelines, detached, squinted real hard, I could see why someone would only see darkness when it comes to shelter dogs.

Sure, you are successfully rehoming dogs from Ohio, the south and the west.  Those are the nice hunting, herding, and hound mixes for the most part.  Why aren't you rehabbing the Akita, Shepherd, Pit Bull, and Chow mixes from New Jersey?  Because, my friend, even you don't want to deal with a truly serious case.

HUH????? Do you want to reread what you wrote.  I believe I have fostered many of the breeds and even the ones mentioned.  I have not fostered an Akita because there is one foster family in our rescue org that just does Akita.

Stop blowing wind and patting yourself on the back and realize that while you save the few dogs that come through your door, there are people all over the country doing the same thing, but they still can't keep up with the flow.  Otherwise, the site we found Sheba on would not have to exist, and I would be agreeing with you.

It is not an exclusive club, anyone can join any time.  

spiritdogs

Those are the nice hunting, herding, and hound mixes for the most part.  Why aren't you rehabbing the Akita, Shepherd, Pit Bull, and Chow mixes from New Jersey?  Because, my friend, even you don't want to deal with a truly serious case. 

In fairness Anne, no good rescue org would place those breeds into a home like DPU's where they all run together. If that is how a person prefers it, then I could easily see a rescue org only sending them the dogs they believe wouold do well in that situation.

I know Akita rescue has specific fosters that can only take males or females, or pups because of the extant situation at home. They want to help but they don't want to make waves and the rescue's allow for that because foster homes are precious.

So it's likely that the rescue knows the deal with it's foster homes and uses them the most efficent way possible.

spiritdogs

Stop blowing wind and patting yourself on the back and realize that while you save the few dogs that come through your door, there are people all over the country doing the same thing, but they still can't keep up with the flow.

Anne, you make it sound like fostering is pointless. Makes no difference. DPU may not be able to save every dog but I'm sure the "few" he does save and rehome are mighty grateful.  

 since there seems to be some discussion of who is to be saved or not I will just add this; in our part of hte country (Brookcove's in the same state) the sheer amount of dogs means that decisions are made quickly and to maximize the resources available.  In my county there is a horrible shelter, a fantastic SPCA, access to many breed specific rescues and a darn good amount of independent rescues, still 14,000 animals were euthanized and about 8,000 rehomed via the shelter and SPCA I don't know the numbers on the independents or breed specific.  In NC 250,000 were euthanized.  Decisions have to be made.  Resources are not infinite. If I can take on 5 dogs that are easy to rehome in place of one that isn't that is what happens.  It makes me extraordinarily sad to think these things, but I'm grown up.

the idiot that lives behind me had two golden/lab mixes that she didn't want so she didn't care for them.  I called her and animal control various times and then told her flat out to rehome them if she didn't want them.  She said she didn't know what to do.  They were nice dogs, but mutts, and 5yo.  No one wanted them, I called everyone. I can hear one bark on occasion, I presume the other is dead and she now has the remaining one cooped up (they used to escape and rummage through garbage). Another nice NC story of dog care - this woman has plenty of money.

I have the utmost respect for all who foster, rehome, volunteer or work in the shelters, retrain these dogs and nurse them to health.  To take a stab at anyone that devotes their time, expertise, and love to homeless animals is just apalling.  If your concern is the animal than take your feelings about the individual out and think about what they contribute to society.

IDK, I look at it this way----if a person does not want to take criticism for their "let's save them all" approach, then they should probably avoid chastising others for their "let's save the most savable" approach.....

...just a thought....

The sad truth is that we can't save them all no matter what kind of dog they are.  And, the positive is that there are all different types of people who foster, some who have the ability to take in the "good" dogs and some who have the experience to give a not so good dog a shot at least. 

I think everyone that's involved in this sort of work is doing their best and to try to say one way is better or worse than the other doesn't help the dogs any.  They need whatever we can offer.

 Honestly Christina if anyone is actively 'saving' dogs they can save the easy ones or the tough ones and they will have my respect.  I may disagree with them philosophically about many things but that doesn't detract from my respect for what they do for dogs.

denise m

spiritdogs

Stop blowing wind and patting yourself on the back and realize that while you save the few dogs that come through your door, there are people all over the country doing the same thing, but they still can't keep up with the flow.

Anne, you make it sound like fostering is pointless. Makes no difference. DPU may not be able to save every dog but I'm sure the "few" he does save and rehome are mighty grateful.  

I must speak a different language or something - how the heck did you get that out of what I said???  Fostering is not pointless.  It helps many dogs to get extra time that they wouldn't get in a shelter in order to be adopted.  But, if you foster the dogs that need extensive rehab to the detriment of nice dogs that also need bailing from high kill shelters, are you really accomplishing the goal of finding homes for the most dogs that you can?  I think not, and that was my point.   

rwbeagles

spiritdogs

Those are the nice hunting, herding, and hound mixes for the most part.  Why aren't you rehabbing the Akita, Shepherd, Pit Bull, and Chow mixes from New Jersey?  Because, my friend, even you don't want to deal with a truly serious case. 

In fairness Anne, no good rescue org would place those breeds into a home like DPU's where they all run together. If that is how a person prefers it, then I could easily see a rescue org only sending them the dogs they believe wouold do well in that situation.

I know Akita rescue has specific fosters that can only take males or females, or pups because of the extant situation at home. They want to help but they don't want to make waves and the rescue's allow for that because foster homes are precious.

So it's likely that the rescue knows the deal with it's foster homes and uses them the most efficent way possible.

I think you missed my point, too, Kate.  And, you'd be amazed what some rescues don't know.  As with shelters, there are the good and the not so good.  But, my point was that the really tough dogs require more time and expertise than should be allotted by rescues if they must allow readily adoptable dogs to be PTS at the shelter for space while they tend to the tough dogs.  kpwlee's post addressed the point quite nicely, and more eloquently than I.

kpwlee

 Honestly Christina if anyone is actively 'saving' dogs they can save the easy ones or the tough ones and they will have my respect.  I may disagree with them philosophically about many things but that doesn't detract from my respect for what they do for dogs.

Exactly!  Great post!

Math is Math and Anne's is right on the money - if it takes 3 weeks to prepare a "good" dog for a home and 6 weeks to prepare a "not so good dog" and you had only 6 weeks of time to donate - you could choose to save 2 "good" dogs or "1" not so good dog.  Either one is wonderful!

 There is no right or wrong, good or bad here.  Is the glass half full or half empty??

Since this is already off topic.

Anne, sorry you had such a frustrating day at your job.

Now for the OT subject.

As much as people try, regular people, trainers, fosters, rescues and shelters, there is no way we are going to save them all. It is just not possible. Refusing to accept that and or choosing to save the many over the one are both admiral traits and should be respected for what they are.

Any one who saves the life of any animal has my respect, be it the one or the many.

I don't think that either choice is wrong. How can it be? Someone who saves 5 and leaves 1 behind is making as difficult a choice as someone who chooses the 1. It is a life saved no matter how it was determined. And in the end, isn't that what is important?

Truley

As much as people try, regular people, trainers, fosters, rescues and shelters, there is no way we are going to save them all. It is just not possible.

Sure you can and below is the reward for the little effort needed by everyone.  Spiritsdog, a collage of the "few" I have rescued, rehabbed, and placed in the past couple of years.  Prior to that, I did not have a camera.  Do you want to know their names?

Look, I'm not trying to bash what you do, DPU, or say my way is best.  Ironically, in fact, I'm working with the third group dogs - I'm not sure you realized that - my real rescue is very different from the general, theoretical rescue I was talking about.  I know a lot about it because I went from working with all-breed, to breed-specific but still all types, to specializing in the high need dogs, to specializing in aggression and general unfitness for normal suburban life.

What I am still trying to understand is a) Why do you think you are saving them all, when you aren't, any more than I am?  b) Why do you criticize us for selectiveness, when you say yourself that you are selective in the dogs you accept? 

The thing is that I'm VERY open to constructive criticism but the problem is that I still haven't figured out what your actual beef is.  You are asking the impossible.  I cannot personally take in 50,000 dogs a year, nor do I think I could coordinate a local effort to cover that many dogs, plus rehab them and find them homes.  So, if you can accept that fact (you can, can't you?  I mean, otherwise I'm waiting for you to wisk out the magic wand and make it all go away) - if you accept the fact that our resources are limited, how are you suggesting we do our jobs better? 

I already take in the maximum number of high needs dogs I can handle, every year (about three per year).  To put that into perspective, when I did general BC rescue with a group, I fostered and placed about 12 dogs a month, and around 150 a year.  I fostered between five and eight dogs at once, mostly in my home.  When I did all breed which was closely associated with shelters, I took "nice" dogs because I was a newbie, and could place about 15 a month, mostly through walk-in adoption centers the rescue had.

What changed?  Am I getting worse at placing dogs?  Are there fewer dogs to place (don't I wish!)?

If you were here, what type of program would you run, knowing that for every high needs dog you took, as many as 50 could be PTS in the shelter?  Don't you think that about kills me if I stop to think about it?  Would you hesitate to euth a dog that faces a lifetime of kenneling because it could never be trusted around people?  OR would you look at the time and effort and financial resources that dog is taking, a little differently - 50 dogs die for every year you keep that dog. 

 Hmm?  Gina said that, not me Anne.