Anticipation and Excitement...

What disappointment?  This doesn't make sense!  If the dog wants to do something soooooo badly that it's jumping out of it's skin---he/she is going to do what you ask??  What kind of dog wouldn't--AGAIN, unless you are asking for something the dog doesn't know. 

Another question---I'm curious how many people would actually call off the ride, dinner or whatever if the dog didn't (for some bizarre reason) do what was asked??  I know I haven't. 

 DPU---So, how does their good behavior due to the great relationships you build with your fosters translate to their new home.  It seems like it wouldn't work out too well in the new place with a new person--wouldn't they have "relationship issues" with the new family especially at first??

DPU said--From the rest of that quote, I am impressed there is a lot of harsh bidding to make the dog stop doing something.  I wonder why I don't encounter such things?

Probably because you don't ask them to stop doing anything--you don't want to cause any stress. 

willowchow

 DPU---So, how does their good behavior due to the great relationships you build with your fosters translate to their new home.  It seems like it wouldn't work out too well in the new place with a new person--wouldn't they have "relationship issues" with the new family especially at first??

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.  That means that the true value or quality of something can only be judged when it's put to use. No return of fosters.

They aren't returned to you or not at all?

How does the new family know how to deal with the dog if you have your own special method.  If it's described at all like it is here it must be very confusing for them--just let the dog be, don't stress it out?  I'm not sure I'd want a new dog in my house who right off thought they could do whatever they wanted.  In fact, I DID have a dog like that in my house and that almost didn't work out. 

DPU

Alright, lets put this to rest.

Put what to rest? I have the right to post in this thread, if I so choose. I also have the right to hold a different view than yours.

DPU

You have one dog and one cat and you live in the south.

I still have the right to comment. The thread is about excitement and anticipation, not necessarily about fostering a house full of dogs.

DPU

Did you ever think that Shadow pulls like a freight train because he is a northern dog breed

Yes, to that part. Any dog can pull but some have it in the breed to do so because only the strongest, fastest pullers (initially) were allowed to breed. It's not necessarily a homing instinct to reach northeastern Siberia. It's just what the dog does.

DPU

From the rest of that quote, I am impressed there is a lot of harsh bidding to make the dog stop doing something

Not harsh at all. I simply have something more desirable to him that whatever he was doing. I also have rewarded when he was already exhibiting behavior that I preferred.

DPU

Doesn't sound like a house living in harmony to me.

And you may certainly have your opinion. And I have watched my one dog play with the one cat in the house. Corner, pin her tail, and then release, so that she can escape and they can do it again. And she usually starts the chase by swatting at his tail to get his attention. But my sig is indicative of the disharmony in our home. At least he could have tried to look menacing.

willowchow

They aren't returned to you or not at all?

You really don't understand fostering and how each dog becomes a permanent part of my life.  No dogs gets adopted before they are ready (except for Sampson where the family said they would continue the same rehab regime I started)  Contact is kept, more in the beginning and less as time passes.  One middle age dog that I fostered over 7 years ago recently died and the owner sent me a note wanting to let me know how much joy Barnum brought to their lives.  When Barnum was here it took him 8 months to get over his shyness with men and the other dogs.  I clearly remember the day he turned and that behavior never returned.  IMO, he needed that 8 months and I know for sure he would have been made worse if I was to put all these demands on him. 

You also obviously don't understand rehab where you have to get a dog to a certain state before any simple demands are placed on the dog.  Just like Barnum, once they turn, the dog would be a dog that anyone would want in their home. 

You are right, I don't understand.  I thought we had discussed more than once how pretty much everyone agreed on an acclimation period.  However, you seem to imply that asking a dog to do anything AFTER THAT ACCLIMATION PERIOD-- will stress and disappoint them. 

kpwlee

 haven't read the whole thread! apologies if this is not informative

Bugsy is a highly exciteable dog.  We have to always be careful about our energy so as not to incite manic behavior from him.  There are things that he is excited about going for a walk or bike ride for instance or a kong or getting a toy. Then there are things that despite all our attempts at calming he is TOO excited for; car rides, going away, going to see his girlfriend, sometimes greeting us or a friend.

For instance we are going away tomorrow, I have been laying things our on our guest bed today, he is way too anxious.  Panics when I go to the door, didn't eat his dinner, pacing, etc.

We discussed over dinner tonight that once again we have to go back to not greeting him when we come home.  I'm guessing that this is for life, everytime we try to greet him normally within a few weeks he is insane when we come home. Nice that he is glad to see us but he is super wound up.

So in our case toning things down doesn't squash anything, it helps  keep him balanced

Are you sure leaving him in this state is a good situation???

What I want to know DPU is what do you do in the beginning BEFORE you get this special relationship that you have with the dogs.  Lets say your new foster is a counter-surfing, jumping on you fool do you allow it?  Do you redirect it? Do you stop it?  Do you manage the dog and crate it?

At night on day one when the new dog comes into the house and the new foster decides to dig in your garbage do you yell?  Do you pull him out?  Do you just let him satisfy his need?  At some point you must have to jump in and place a boundary long before the dog had a relationship with you or before you have figured out the dogs needs.  Or for some magical reason when you feed this dog his dinner and satisfy his basic need for food he doesn't go in the garbage or counter surf from day one?  

There has to be something you do that stops, redirects or tell these dogs NO.  It can't just be a free for all - unless you lock them away during these times I don't understand.

I do understand what your saying but in all the time I have been a member and reading your logic I can never grasp "the gap" between the time you get these dogs and develop this relationship you state is needed to stop it?  I don't think boundaries are negative maybe the way some people go about applying boundaries can be negative but a simple redirection or alternative behavior asked isn't and without such a protocol what do YOU do?

Let's say Leslie's dog came to at your house and jumped on everyone when they entered how do you bridge the gap between when you figure out this dogs "needs" . You implied that Leslie should fulfill the dogs needs and the jumping will stop, well..  until you can figure that out (which I don't understand how you do that) what would you do with that behavior?  Do let them jump on people?  Do you lock them in another room and not allow them to see your guests?  If you are allowing the dog to socialize you must stop or redirect that behavior somehow?

kpwlee

 haven't read the whole thread! apologies if this is not informative

Bugsy is a highly exciteable dog.  We have to always be careful about our energy so as not to incite manic behavior from him.  There are things that he is excited about going for a walk or bike ride for instance or a kong or getting a toy. Then there are things that despite all our attempts at calming he is TOO excited for; car rides, going away, going to see his girlfriend, sometimes greeting us or a friend.

For instance we are going away tomorrow, I have been laying things our on our guest bed today, he is way too anxious.  Panics when I go to the door, didn't eat his dinner, pacing, etc.

We discussed over dinner tonight that once again we have to go back to not greeting him when we come home.  I'm guessing that this is for life, everytime we try to greet him normally within a few weeks he is insane when we come home. Nice that he is glad to see us but he is super wound up.

So in our case toning things down doesn't squash anything, it helps  keep him balanced

My girlfriends little dog gets all freaked out when she packs her suit case (she travels for business so this happens often) she now hides in the closet to pack and sneaks the suit case out in the middle of night.

luvmyswissy

What I want to know DPU is what do you do in the beginning BEFORE you get this special relationship that you have with the dogs.  Lets say your new foster is a counter-surfing, jumping on you fool do you allow it?  Do you redirect it? Do you stop it?  Do you manage the dog and crate it?

I have never encountered these behavior from the get go...even though I have an open 40lbs bag of Blue kibble sitting in a corner of the kitchen.  On the counter top is red box of milkbone, their denal bones, bread, crackers, etc.  Since there is no problem from the get go, I have nothing to do.  The question should be why are other people's dogs doing this?

At night on day one when the new dog comes into the house and the new foster decides to dig in your garbage do you yell?  Do you pull him out?  Do you just let him satisfy his need?  At some point you must have to jump in a place a boundary long before the dog had a relationship with you or before you have figured out the dogs needs.  Or for some magical reason when you feed this dog his dinner and satisfy his basic need for food he doesn't go in the garbage or counter surf from day one?  

Same answer, never encountered this.  By the nighttime of day one, the new foster wants to be part of the group and they don't leave the room that I and the pack are in....no barriers are in place.  And yes, I focus on the dog's needs and give special focus on the dog's most pronounced issue.

There has to be something you do that stops, redirects or tell these dogs NO.  It can't just be a free for all - unless you lock them away during these times I don't understand.

Only aggression related to resource guarding.  The dog quickly learns on its own there is no need to resource guard if the needs are satisfied or more than satisfied.

I do understand what your saying but in all the time I have been a member and reading your logic I can never grasp "the gap" between the time you get these dogs and develop this relationship you state is needed to stop it?  I don't think boundaries are negative maybe the way some people go about applying boundaries can be negative but a simple redirection or alternative behavior asked isn't and without such a protocol what do YOU do?

To me, the dog has to be ready for training otherwise the relationship building takes a huge step backwards.  Boundaries applied by some people are simply negating behavior they created.  The question should be what are these people doing to create these behaviors.

Let's say Leslie's dog came to at your house and jumped on everyone when they entered how do you bridge the gap between when you figure out this dogs "needs" . You implied that Leslie should fulfill the dogs needs and the jumping will stop, well..  until you can figure that out (which I don't understand how you do that) what would you do with that behavior?  Do let them jump on people?  Do you lock them in another room and not allow them to see your guests?  If you are allowing the dog to socialize you must stop or redirect that behavior somehow?

New dogs come to my house on the weekend and I usually try to have just me and the dogs there.  But people do come over to see the new dog.  I swear, I have not seen any of these foster dogs jump on people.  If I had such a problem I would probably create a thread asking for ideas....like I always do.....but it does not happen.  Lesjie should try and determine why the dog is doing this and then work on a resolve.  Ignorng or modifying one normal behavior to accomodate this behavior is just not going to work.....the root of the problem has to be identified and then addressed.

DPU

luvmyswissy

What I want to know DPU is what do you do in the beginning BEFORE you get this special relationship that you have with the dogs.  Lets say your new foster is a counter-surfing, jumping on you fool do you allow it?  Do you redirect it? Do you stop it?  Do you manage the dog and crate it?

I have never encountered these behavior from the get go...even though I have an open 40lbs bag of Blue kibble sitting in a corner of the kitchen.  On the counter top is red box of milkbone, their denal bones, bread, crackers, etc.  Since there is no problem from the get go, I have nothing to do.  The question should be why are other people's dogs doing this?

At night on day one when the new dog comes into the house and the new foster decides to dig in your garbage do you yell?  Do you pull him out?  Do you just let him satisfy his need?  At some point you must have to jump in a place a boundary long before the dog had a relationship with you or before you have figured out the dogs needs.  Or for some magical reason when you feed this dog his dinner and satisfy his basic need for food he doesn't go in the garbage or counter surf from day one?  

Same answer, never encountered this.  By the nighttime of day one, the new foster wants to be part of the group and they don't leave the room that I and the pack are in....no barriers are in place.  And yes, I focus on the dog's needs and give special focus on the dog's most pronounced issue.

There has to be something you do that stops, redirects or tell these dogs NO.  It can't just be a free for all - unless you lock them away during these times I don't understand.

Only aggression related to resource guarding.  The dog quickly learns on its own there is no need to resource guard if the needs are satisfied or more than satisfied.

I do understand what your saying but in all the time I have been a member and reading your logic I can never grasp "the gap" between the time you get these dogs and develop this relationship you state is needed to stop it?  I don't think boundaries are negative maybe the way some people go about applying boundaries can be negative but a simple redirection or alternative behavior asked isn't and without such a protocol what do YOU do?

To me, the dog has to be ready for training otherwise the relationship building takes a huge step backwards.  Boundaries applied by some people are simply negating behavior they created.  The question should be what are these people doing to create these behaviors.

Let's say Leslie's dog came to at your house and jumped on everyone when they entered how do you bridge the gap between when you figure out this dogs "needs" . You implied that Leslie should fulfill the dogs needs and the jumping will stop, well..  until you can figure that out (which I don't understand how you do that) what would you do with that behavior?  Do let them jump on people?  Do you lock them in another room and not allow them to see your guests?  If you are allowing the dog to socialize you must stop or redirect that behavior somehow?

New dogs come to my house on the weekend and I usually try to have just me and the dogs there.  But people do come over to see the new dog.  I swear, I have not seen any of these foster dogs jump on people.  If I had such a problem I would probably create a thread asking for ideas....like I always do.....but it does not happen.  Lesjie should try and determine why the dog is doing this and then work on a resolve.  Ignorng or modifying one normal behavior to accommodate this behavior is just not going to work.....the root of the problem has to be identified and then addressed.

Gosh I would think that with fosters that come from assume bad enviroments with little of no training you would have encountered these problems.  But I have to admit I only rescued one dog and for the first month or month in a half she did NOTHING WRONG she never tried getting into anything, jumping on people or even leave my side really I think she was just so unsure she didn't exibit the behaviors.  So I can see why maybe you don't see these behavior in your fosters - with my one expierence I can relate to fosters being well behaved I just didn't think of that..  She is still a great dog but over time and with comfort she has come to sneakily sniff the table or go into the open garbage if left it unattended and accessible.  And she jumps to greet people now too. So maybe it is something I do that makes these behaviors develop, I don't know what it is but the only thing I know to do about it is redirect and set boundries. 

snownose

Very interesting opinions I have read in this thread......I know DPU's record......so, how about the new entry to posting about rescue......how many and what type of dogs have been rescued by you and how do you deal with severe excited dogs???

So is this thread only about rescues? Or maybe only open to people who rescue and foster rescues?

I didn't see any reference to those restrictions in the original post.  

luvmyswissy

Gosh I would think that with fosters that come from assume bad enviroments with little of no training you would have encountered these problems.  But I have to admit I only rescued one dog and for the first month or month in a half she did NOTHING WRONG she never tried getting into anything, jumping on people or even leave my side really I think she was just so unsure she didn't exibit the behaviors.  So I can see why maybe you don't see these behavior in your fosters - with my one expierence I can relate to fosters being well behaved I just didn't think of that..  She is still a great dog but over time and with comfort she has come to sneakily sniff the table or go into the open garbage if left it unattended and accessible.  And she jumps to greet people now too. So maybe it is something I do that makes these behaviors develop, I don't know what it is but the only thing I know to do about it is redirect and set boundries. 

So, you feel like you did all you could do???

Cassidys Mom

So is this thread only about rescues? Or maybe only open to people who rescue and foster rescues?

Yikes, who said that?

AuroraLove

SirDrakeOfTheCreek , how do you attempt rehabilitating DA dogs?

Quite frankly it has varied greatly over the years depending upon the dog, the level of aggression, the level of abuse it has endured, etc.

My main 'formula' I guess you could call it, is to first spend a LOT of time with the dog, one on one, and take small steps to build a relationship. You have to understand that the vast majority of the dogs I work with have been severely abused, neglected, starved and so on. Some have been used as bait dogs, some were fighting dogs, some were just kicked everytime they laid in the wrong spot. I truly have always taken on the ones that are 'hopeless' and that no one else wants to touch. I handle the ones that the Vets and other trainers suggest should be euthanized, the ones that come in muzzled, the ones that have to be fed 'over the door' because if you open it they attack. For this reason I rarely get to just rehabilitate DA and first have to earn the dogs trust and build a solid foundation so the dog doesn't eat me. If I was lucky enough to get a dog that only needed help with DA, my first step would be to build a solid foundation, next step basic obedience and a "watch" word (which I think is one of the MOST important things in a DA dog). Then comes associating other dogs with good things (from afar), gradually getting them closer until I am able to walk by a dog with my dog paying attention to me. Once we have that down we are able to meet a stable dog under very close supervision and increase the dogs confidence as we go. This takes awhile. It's not overnight and there are multiple steps in between and the schedule is often changed or modified depending upon that dogs needs. My experience in rehabilitation of abused dogs has taught me there is no one size fits all.