Jesus' fear of the collar and leash

This is a very sore point with me. I have a large breed of dog, they are powerful and muscular. I teach my puppy owners from DAY ONE, you Train so you don't Complain! 

Why is your pup walking around without a collar? Is he Microchipped? or did you think it would be fun to run about the neighborhood in a panic putting up posters saying "Have you seen Jesus?"   Seriously , your pup was a teeny tiny cutie I'm sure and you carried him everywhere because everyone thought it was adorable.  Now he is easily doubled in size and weight and instead of having a well trained adolescent you can be proud of you have a spoiled brat dictating how you are to interact with him. It is going to get much worse than just challenging you over a simple collar and lead,  he will be unhappy about something and you will have to deal with his little temper tantrums. 

Another problem with untrained dogs , they are not happy animals. They have no rules or boundries so they have no purpose. Unhappy dogs become neurotic and destructive.  He may seem okay now but in another year when you won't take him out because of his leash/collar issues he will become one of the fidgity shaking nasty pests that try to start something up with every other dog.  It won't be his fault, it will be yours.

Every breed has a purpose, knowing your breed makes training so much easier. My dogs are hunting dogs and family dogs, they live to protect and hang out with us.  If I kenneled them away from the family they would be horribly unhappy.  So our Dog room is off the kitchen. each has their own crate and each has been trained to be content when in it. When out they are eager to please weather it's on a walk , in the ring , running a lure or just crashed on the bed next to us snoring happily.  To properly care for and train my breed I learned EVERYTHING I could. They are prey driven , they are protective, they are self thinkers not needing constant instruction, they do not fetch, they run.   I have 9 dogs , the smallest is 50 pounds at 7 months old,  with 5 kids in the house from a tiny 23 pound 2 year old to a 54 pound 8 year old My dogs outweigh the kids ! So for saftey and common sense my dogs are trained from day one.  My 2 year old can walk any of my dogs on a leash anywhere with no fear of being pulled , dragged or injured. the kids are taught, the dogs are taught, there is no excuse for anyone not knowing what they are to do.

So let's talk Chihuahuas.   Chihuahuas were bred to be devoted companions. They were downsized physically not mentally and they have great heart and courage when raised correctly.  They WANT a job.  They enjoy being the center of your world as long as people think they are cute and smart.  They get a reputation for being snarky little brats when owners ( that would be YOU) do not take the time and train them. I have seen an incredible Chi working Agility !  This pup thought it was the KING, and everyone watching him wanted to take him home. A Giant in a tiny body he rocked!! Happy because he was allowed to learn , had loving teachers and remained the center of attention as a grown dog.  His offspring were in high demand and the breeder was dedicated and careful about placing his pups.  They did not get sold as a fashion accessory, they were placed as awesome pets.

So scolding  and lecture over,  let's fix this problem child you have. First find him a cute comfortable collar put it on him and LEAVE it on.  He will adjust. you can speed the adjustment up by praising him and building his ego.  Tell him what a handsome big boy he is with his collar on etc.  after a few days with collar , take a light weight lead put it on him and let him drag it around the house for a day or two, no stepping on it to mess with him, just let him get used to the feeling of the lead.  Once he seems able to ignore it begin his actual training.  most dogs are responsive to treats or a toy , find his happy thing, and reward him with it.  Cut back on his food so treats are not just interesting but actually of value to him. Hungry dogs work . Make every training session a happy time,  high energy and praise encourage him make him want to please you.

You want to go bye bye? , Sit , Collar( already on ) now leash. If he fights it he stays you go.  give him a few minutes to think about it , return and try again. He does NOT go out without the Collar and Lead.  Lead on Goooood Boy Here is your treat !! He is not the boss of you , you are the boss of him please keep this in mind. Just because it is easier to scoop him up and not fight with him does not make it right.  Be consistant in what he is expected to do.  A dog that does the basic commands is far more valuable to everyone , because he is tiny he does not get a pass on learning how to Sit, Down , Stay, Come,  etc.

Since you mentioned a boyfriend I am guessing you might not have kids...... learn to teach some one small NOW before you have kids. Learn to set rules and expectations. If it turns out you are really awful at it it's better to fail with a dog than a child.

Bonita of Bwana

I have two chi's and I think the best way to get them used to wearing a collar and leash is not allowing them outside without one. If we are going out, they get a collar/leash or they don't go. Mine LOVE to get their collars put on because they know it means we are going for a walk. I think it's really important to walk your chi at least two times/day. Mine don't wear collars at home either. They are both microchipped and my breeder feels fairly strongly that it's unsafe for little breeds especially if they are left in ex-pens like mine are. Just keep at it and he will get the point. What type of treats are you using? You may want to try some higher value treats like pieces of cheese or chicken. I also agree that you should teach your guy some basic manners. Ollie and Otto know their basic commands like sit, stay, down, heel, etc...... It makes life much easier for all involved. When I say does anyone need to potty, they are at the door sitting nicely waiting by their leashes in about 2 seconds flat lol.

I only started skimming through the first reply to be honest and felt compelled to respond straight away.  Maybe I replay again after having read the replies properly.

First, I want to offer a different perspective than Bonita.  (Sorry Bonita, I usually agree with you!)

I don't feel that this pup is a "brat", nor do I think he is "challenging you over a collar and lead".

Because:

JustCarol28

When he sees the collar in our hands, he will run away to his carrier case. 

 

JustCarol28

This morning we attempted to introduce the collar to him and he irinated on the floor.

 

Both symptoms that point to FEAR.  The neck and throat is a vulnerable area.  Add the lead and the situation worsens - now not only is he frightened but he can't get away!  Have you tried using a harness instead?  This should feel less threatening to him (not on his neck) and may be more comfortable for him.  Many small-dog owners use harnesses instead of collars to avoid harmful pressure on the trachea.  This could be a short term solution, while you work on etting him used to wearing a colalr so he can wear one full time, with an ID tag attached (This is where I am in 100% agreement with Bonita!)

Now, IMO, keeping in mind that this pup is frightened and confused will help you to handle the situation apprpriately.  Words like "brat" and "challenge" put you in a different frame of mind - and IMO the wrong one!  I really do think you are on the right track with training treats when he goes near the collar.

I also agree with Bonita is that this is due to a lack of training and socialisation when he was young.  If you want a dog to accept other people and dogs, he needs to have many varied, positive experiences with them while he is young (under 4 months).  It is really no different with the collar and lead, or handling of all parts of the body.  What he is really frightened of is the unknown.

This is a video of a simple technique you could use to help Jesus.  It is very gentle.  It shows a dog who went into a frenzy any time his owners tried to trim his nails, but the basic idea is pretty much the same.  It involves using a marker to shape a positive behaviour and response from the dog to replace the undesired behaviour and help him overcome his fear (because he will begin to associate the collar with ood Stuff)  If you do just a little reading to understand the basic principles it won't take long to see a significant improvement.  The marker used in teh video is a clicker, but you don't have to use one.  You can pick a distinct sounding word and train yourself to say it the same way each time instead.  The clicker has a hge advantage in taht it ALWAYS sounds EXACTLY the same and it is very, very precise.  This can't be over emphasised enough

If Jesus were my dog, I would use a harness for the times I needed to attach a lead, just for the next few days.  During that time I would handfeed all his meals.  Meal time would consist of me bringing the collar out and placing it in clear view of Jesus, then start feeding his meal.  When the meal is over, I would put the collar out of sight.  I would do the same at snack time, any time the dog has treats.  If he loves belly rubs, you could get the collar out and leave it in view while you give him a belly rub, then put it away again.  You could use a bum bag (fanny pack?) to put the collar in so you can easily take it out each time something FANTASTIC is about to happen for Jesus - and then hide it away out of sight immediately afterwards.  At the moment, he sees the collar and he feels scared, confused, tense, on guard.... this makes him difficilt to work with.  This exercise will help him to change his mind about the collar.  Instead of dread, when he sees the colalr he should think "Yippee!!!"  If you know what makes this little dog tick - what he would kill or die for! - then this process shouldn't take long.  If you don't know, you need to find out!  The information will be INVALUABLE to you ANY time you need to teach him something.

When he started to view the colalr a little differently, I would start behaviour modifictaion.  Personally, I would use a clicker for this one.  I'd ahve several short sessions of "charging" the clicker. (Click, treat, click, treat, click treat... until the dog KNOWS that the two are paird and the treat will ALWAYS follow the click).  Then I would start to "shape" his behaviour, just as you have been doing - that is allow him to do it on his own and "capture it".  So I'd take the collar out and leave it in view.  Jesus should do SOMETHING at this point.  Anything.  He is likely to glance at it.  Click immediately (followed by treat).  He is not likely to be tense at this point - he may have decided that his humans have given up trying to put the horrid thing round his neck, and only good things happen when the colalr appears.  So at first you may just be doling out treats simply because he is behaving CALMLY and HAPPILY  in teh presence of the collar.  That is not nothing, that is SOMETHING.  It deserves a reward! 

If he glances at the collar or does ANYTHING colalr related - no matter how small - click and jackpot!  Lots and lots of little tiny treats, a small handful, for just one click.  Have a PARTY.  Let him know how wonderful he is.  Continue to click and treat for any collar related behaviour he offers.

Treats should be TASTY and TINY!!!  I mean about half the size of your smallest fingernail.  Initially you should be doling out LOTS of them.  Lots and lots.  FIND things collar-related to give Jesus treats for, no matter how small and ridiculous they may seem to you.  It should be easy and fun for Jesus.

You could also (for example) bring the collar in the room and place it at the other end of the room to Jesus.  Does he know a sit stay?  You could give him treats for remaining in the sit stay, with the collar at the far side of the room.  Then go and move the collar and pace or so closer and repeat.  Keep the first session short and end it positively before he becomes tense and scared.

Once he is happy about going up to the colalr and pawing at it or picking it up and having YOU hold it near him (this might take several sort sessions, keep your expectations low) - then touch it lightly to his body for a milisecond, click and jackpot.  You might want to end that session  there and revisit later.  Push too far to fast and you'll be back to square one. 

Now, I am imagine being a tiny little dog and I am thinking that having a collar FASTENED around my neck - the actual act of buckling it - is going to be very threatening.  So I would have the collar fastened on its largest setting, large enough that it could be EASILY looped over his head as long as he remained fairly still.  What I would want to do is "shape" the behaviour of the dog actually putting his nose through it, or at least remaining still and cheerfully calm while I moved the collar towards his head. 

So then you have reached the point where the dog is wearing the collar.  It's too big at this stage and he could not wear it for long, nor without supervision.  Now I'm GUESSING as I haven't seen Jesus but honestly, I'd be expecting him to be OK with the collar (wearing it on its largest setting) within a few days and wearing it (normal size, full time) within about a week.  But then I am the Eternal Optimist.  Guessing again, I'd expect him to take a little longer to be totally happy and confident about having it actually FASTENED arond his neck.  I could be hugely wrong - some dogs learn slower than others, some are more stubborn and some are more lacking in confidence.... but then again he could be wearing the thing 24/7 in 2 days.  *shrugs*  I think you are on the right track, I think you just need a way to tell him exactly WHY he is getting these treats, a way to communicate to  him that they are connected to the collar.  Once he gets the light bulb moment, he'll make Progress

I see your point Chuffy and on many things I agree,   Some folks do not handle collars well and actually can hurt a dog unknowingly.  It is entirely possible that the dog has had a bad experience with the collar. And I agree , after reading your post I re read the OP and it does have some fear aspects that I missed when reading it the first time.  A Harness would be better all around in this situation,

I have had small dogs in the past and enjoyed them tremendously, my dogs were always socialized and well trained . My toy poodle was my Wing man when I went to Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Clown School.  A dog who is not challenged and trained is an unhappy critter. And I have always found toy dogs are very , very intelligent !  When I speak with big Toy breeders the ones who show up at the rings with 6 or more toy dogs in stacked crates, I often find they are either great dogs or totally awful because the breeder hasn't the time to really work on the individual.  Often you will meet a show dog who while trained in the ring are socially backwards because it's crate to the ring and crate to the RV or room. No walking and playing with many  people etc. These are the toys that bark till hoarse at anya and everything that passes the crate. They demonstrate both fear and aggression that is such a turn off.  Then you meet the Breeder who really understands the dogs and they have the most fascinating little guys, beautiful manners and clever kids. They kitten up to everyone and are a joy to be around. IMO it comes down to owners to make a choice what type of dog they hope to have and with early socialization and training they can have that dog. 

Bonita of Bwana

 

 I agree.... I see SO many little dogs taht don't get the socialisation and training they really do need - and I don't even go to shows!  I see A LOT of little dogs that show fear and aggression and many times it's written off.  Some folks think its cute and spunky, ha ha ha he thinks he's a big tough guy.  And some folks put it down to the dog being a spoilt brat.  I feel sorry for the little dog who often seems overwhelmed and bewildered by what's going on.

The thing is aggression is usually triggered by fear, so if a dog is showing fear, I think it's best to turn it around as quickly and kindly as possible.  I can't imagine how over whelming the world must be at times for a creature so small in a world not catered to his species, where so many of the humans close to him either laugh at him or write him off as a brat.

If it escalates to aggression there is the chance that the dog will learn that growling or snapping - or even biting - will get folks to back off, where running away, urinating etc. didn't work!  It's really early days still for this little guy - if he has never even seen the collar till a  few days ago then it's not like he has a long history of collar-dread to overcome and re-learn.

 

 I'm not the type person that you seem to think I am.   You thought you could read me like a book but you are completely wrong.   First off, let me start by saying, I did not want to get into detail about my life or the earlier months of my dog's life.   I simply asked for help.  I did not ask to be "scolded" or told that I may not be a suitable parent one day. I don't appreciate how you automatically assumed that I am a horrible dog owner because he is fearful of a collar and leash. I never treated this dog as if he was an accessory to my outfit or just a toy.  You were completely out of line in saying this.  He's fearful because of what has happened to him.  He was abused when he was younger and suffered a broken leg at the age of 4 months old.  He's gone through multiple surgeries in order to fix his leg.  So yeah, I'd say that at one point in his life he was treated poorly.  But with me, he's been given a great life. 

 We used to live in a single family home with a large backyard that was completely closed in. He also stayed with two other dogs.  He is not microchipped but he never ran into the street nor did he run around neighborhood freely.  My dog did not wear a collar for the first year because he wore a harness and he gave me a hard time then also.  He was taken for walks on a daily basis with a leash and followed the lead of the other two dogs.  I recently changed my mind about the harness because its so difficult to get it on him so I thought a collar would be an easier idea because it can be left on him for long periods of time.   Now that we've moved, he no longer has the company of the two dogs and he almost seems lost without them.   The backyard at the new place is very open and does not have any fencing.  There are also some stray cats in the neighborhood.   This is a huge change for a dog and I understand that it will take time for him to adjust. 

 Jesus is very well mannered.  He does not bark at other people nor has he ever biten anyone.  He keeps his distance but will eventually approach people at the dog park on his own terms.  He is crate trained and follows simple commands like sit, stay, and down.   I dont believe that I have ever been a bad dog owner.  I believe that i am doing everything I can for this dog but it seems he almost needs the guidance of the other two dogs he used to live with.  My experience with dogs go back to when I was younger.  We had three dogs and they were all well behaved.

Your response was not needed and I don't think I will need any assistance from you further. 

 The response above is targeted to Bonita and I apologize if I have offended anyone other than her.

Oh no, the poor little guy

I think you are right that the collar would be easier for you and it really should have an ID tag on, even if he has never run away before.  You just never know and it is the fastest way for him to be reunited with you.  But for now, I would stick with the harness and build him up to wearing a collar gradually over the next few days.

I think you are also right about the other two dogs giving him confidence.  Lesson I've learned the hard way - when you socialise a puppy you have to get him out and about plenty on his own, even if he has been out a lot with his doggy "brothers and sisters" and seemed OK.

Give him time and take it slowly and please don't forget to come back with updates
 

Chuffy, Thank you for your response.  Since the move, Jesus has not been eating his meals so I dont believe that hand feeding him will do any good.   He's been responding well to training treats that are probably the size of my pinky fingernail.  I have not tried any other type of treats like small pieces of chicken or cheese.  Maybe a richer reward will give him more motivation to go near the leash.  

I see your point about him being a tiny dog and the collar is on a sensitive area of the neck.  What do you suggest for the type of leash I should be using with him?  I think that I will try and give the collar a try for a few days and then possibly move forward to a harness.

I just finished an exercise with him.   I use his carrier case to keep him safe in the car.  So he knows that if he's going in the carrier then he's going out.   When he sees me take out the leash, he runs to the carrier.  I placed the leash in the front of the carrier and then placed a training treat on the leash.  He took it without any hesitation.  So i then attach the leash while he was in the carrier and he walked out without any problems.  I'm not sure if this is the best way to go about this.  What do you think?  I reward him with every time he gets closer and closer to the leash.  He's also rewarded when he's walking well. 

Thanks for your help

JustCarol28

Since the move, Jesus has not been eating his meals so I dont believe that hand feeding him will do any good. 

 

I am wondering when his last check up at the vet was?  The lack of appetite is PROBABLY just stress from the move, but the trouble with that kind of symptom is - it could be something, or it could be nothing. 

I am also thinking - if he suffered a broken leg could damage have also been done to his neck/spine that actually makes wearing the collar  uncomfortable for him? 

I'm also wondering how well he can transition to the collar (which is proving stressful for him) when he is already in a tizzy from the upheaval of moving house.  I don't think it would hurt to keep using the harness as you have been doing in the past for the first couple of weeks in this new place.  Let him deal with one big stressy thing at a time?

JustCarol28

I just finished an exercise with him.   I use his carrier case to keep him safe in the car.  So he knows that if he's going in the carrier then he's going out.   When he sees me take out the leash, he runs to the carrier.  I placed the leash in the front of the carrier and then placed a training treat on the leash.  He took it without any hesitation.  So i then attach the leash while he was in the carrier and he walked out without any problems.  I'm not sure if this is the best way to go about this.  What do you think?  I reward him with every time he gets closer and closer to the leash.  He's also rewarded when he's walking well. 

That's great   I think the lead you are using is probably fine.  I would do a few exercises where you put it on him and do a few simple training exercises (like sit stay, walk beside you) while the lead drags on the ground, keeping the session very short and fun for him.  Especially concentrating on walking nicely beside you so the lead doesn't go taut.  If it does feel uncomfortable for him when it goes taut taht would explain why he doesn't like lead walking too much.... and making sure the lead stays slack will make it more pleasant for him.

If he loves car rides, I would use that as well as food treats to get him used to the collar.  You want him to be as happy about the collar and lead as he is about the carrier.... Would he be happy to sit in someone's lap for a short car ride?  Maybe he could do that a few times instead of the carrier and that way you can attach the lead to him for the duration of the journey, to help him build a positive association with it.  It depends how much he loves car rides really.  (Wild horses couldn't keep ours out of the car once the doors are open )

Carol you did not offend me and I am sorry I offended you.  Your OP was rather brief and in no way did you indicate your pup had issues that would contribute to his fear of the collar and lead.  Instead it read as if you have an untrained dog with zero social skills.  Since you did not indicate this dog was new to your home that would lead one to think you simply had made no effort to teach or train.  With the clarification you offered it is obvious the pup has many reasons to have issues.

I do not know if you have read other posts where a person asks a question , while offering next to no info ...   It puts the reader in the position of having to fill in their own blanks.   I think someone else said the other day when you hear hoofbeats  sometimes it's a horse and other times it is a zebra...    On reading your OP  I admit with embarassment I pictured a very young lady as in teen, who had gotten a "brittneydog" . Obviously wrong and my bad.  Because of that poor assumption and the zero information the picture I had was a young person who bought a toy as an fashion accessory but failed to put effort into it's training, now that the dog was becoming a problem this person wanted a quick fix .  Admittedly that annoyed me. The crack which was snarky and unfair about the raising of kids was directed at the spoiled kid I thought had written the OP.

Your response is understandably angry and with the further information offered makes my assumption all the more ignorant.  I rarely make assumptions like that and for the life of me don't know why it seemed so correct at the time.  But then hindsight is always 20-20 right?

while I realize you do not require any help form me may I offer the following from experience. I am working with a young Ridgeback who like your pup was injured very young at his breeder's home. He has trust issues because of it.  Nemo had his tail broken at the base between 3 and 5 weeks of age by teens who came to visit the pups.  When I got him home to begin his therapy dog training I realize despite the very simular bloodllines he would be a challenge as he did not trust children or strangers.  Lucklily for me RRs are very food oriented and my 5 grandkids ( that we are raising) are awesome with dogs.  so instead of feeding him 3xs a day we opted for 2 meals and tons of treats from the kids. Taking it slowly they would put his treat down and back up.  He would shyly come get it then scamper away. Slowly they worked up to him taking it from their hands and him allowing them to put hands on him.  He has gone from growling at all children to now believing most kids have a great and endless supply of treats somewhere. It took the better part of 4 months to get him this far.  This slowed down his regular training in basic working skills . Fortunately for him, the family has had delays in the renovation of their apartment in NYC so I will have additional time to work on the skills he still needs. 

Your pup is dealing with several issues from what you have shared. He has a trust issue and that is a tough one.  He is also seperated from his playmates so he may be grieving a bit.  The new home will be a bit confusing to him as well.  The basic advice from before is still sound. He truly needs that training in all of the standard commands.  This gives him both reassurance and boundries.  Chuffy's suggestions about  a harness had sounded great , but as you have said it was also an issue the collar option would be my choice.   Have you considered the idea of small bandanas ? Being both soft and  fun you can make it a game when putting them on him, getting  him used to the feeling of wearing a neck item.  The dragging of the lead about the house is still one of the steps in training a lead shy pup or dog.  The urinating when confronted with the lead and collar as Chuffy said is a fear response , the only way past a fear response is gentle and consistant behavior on your part. He piddles you ignore it. Don't scold him for it and don't rush to reassure him.  That can reinforce the action making it a habit rather than allowing him to move past it eventually.   I would like to encourage you to rethink having him microchipped.  Until he is happy and comfortable with the collar allowing you to keep a tag on him you are taking a big chance. While you said he does not wander you can never be sure he will not bolt if  frightened.  chipping him would increase the chances of his recovery should that ever happen. 

I hope you will accept both the apology and the advice with the sincere intention it has been offered and best of luck with your little guy !

Bonita of Bwana

Bonita of Bwana

Have you considered the idea of small bandanas ? Being both soft and  fun you can make it a game when putting them on him, getting  him used to the feeling of wearing a neck item. 

 

That's an awesome idea

Bonita of Bwana

He piddles you ignore it. Don't scold him for it and don't rush to reassure him.  That can reinforce the action making it a habit rather than allowing him to move past it eventually. 

 

More great advice ^ ^ ^

Bonita of Bwana

I would like to encourage you to rethink having him microchipped.  Until he is happy and comfortable with the collar allowing you to keep a tag on him you are taking a big chance. While you said he does not wander you can never be sure he will not bolt if  frightened.

 

The best advice yet ^ ^ ^ ^ 

 Bonita,

This is my first time posting in a forum.  And I am not familiar with how this works.  I felt a bit desperate and I thought this would be a great idea.  I'm not really sure how in depth I should have gotten with my situation.  I was partly living in a fantasy world hoping that there would be a magical fix for Jesus' problem to lower his stress and also my own.  I'm sorry if I seemed a bit rude and I will take your advice.  I felt attacked and looking back at my original post I was very vague so I can see how you thought I was young girl with a dog just because it's cute.

***Update:  I have left the collar on him all day long.  He's scratching a bit but it's normal because he's not used to it.   I just purchased a much lighter lead for him kind of like a cat's lead so that he can feel the lead as he drags it.  He's panicking a bit when he gets tangled in it.  But he eventually figures it out.  He's still not eating but I am not hand feeding him.  I believe that he will eat when he's ready.

Thank you all for your help.  I will update you. 

i agree with you. dont try to handfeed him, when he is even too stressed to eat on his own. it might put too much pressure on him and you dont want him to associate pressure or anxiety with food...

but i'm a bit worried since he's a little guy about him not eating. are you at least getting some yummy treats into him? you might also try to add some stuff to his regular food to make it more tasty and/or smelly, so it is more appealing... things to add are fishoil, (we have a supplement here that comes in a bottle instead of a capsule), raw egg (mixing the kibble in throroughly) cream cheese, chicken or veggie broth, etc... get creative. i just think that a little guy like that really needs to get that nutrition to keep his blood sugar level...

good luck! i can relate on having a nervous dog (that doesnt eat, when nervous!!)