Docking Dogs= Aggression?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Docking Dogs= Aggression?

    If this was already posted, sorry for reposting it, but what an interesting study!
    Dogs with docked tails can grow up mean: study
    Victoria study with robo-dog shows lack of full tail limits communication
    Nicholas Read , Canwest News Service
    Published: Monday, March 24, 2008

    Dock your dog's tail, and you run the risk of making it more aggressive. So say two University of Victoria scientists after observing how 492 real-life dogs reacted to a robotic dog with and without a docked tail.
    UVic biologist Tom Reimchen and graduate student Steve Leaver wanted to find out what effect cutting off a dog's tail might have on its behaviour and the way other dogs behave around it. What they discovered was that dogs will approach a dog with a docked tail more cautiously than they will a dog with a complete tail. And that, says Reimchen, could make the dog with a docked tail more aggressive. "Think of it this way," he says. "What type of teenager would you get if everyone approached him saying, 'I don't trust you'? What type of personality would emerge from that? It could be the same in dogs."
    These findings, based on a series of observations made in the summer of 2006, are published in the latest edition of Behaviour magazine, a European science journal dedicated to the study of animal and human behaviour.
    Reimchen hypothesized that if a dog lacks a tail, arguably the most important communication tool it has when it comes to relating to other dogs, its behaviour could be negatively affected. To test that hypothesis, Leaver outfitted a toy dog with a motor in its hindquarters that would wag - or not - one of two artificial tails Leaver could attach to its rear end. The first tail was 30 centimetres long, roughly the length of a normal tail, and the second was nine centimetres, roughly the length of a docked tail.
    Then Leaver took the robo-dog, which resembled a black lab, to a number of off-leash parks in the Victoria area to observe how real dogs reacted to it. "When the long tail was wagging, then other dogs would approach (the robo-dog) in a confident friendly way," Leaver said in an interview. "But when the tail was still and upright, they were less likely to approach, and if they did, it was in a less confident way."
    That, he said, was consistent with normal dog behaviour. In dog "language" a wagging tail usually means "come play with me," while a stiff, upright tail usually means "stay away" or at least "approach with care."
    But when Leaver fixed the shorter tail to the toy dog, real dogs were more likely to believe that discretion was the better part of valour and approach it warily, Reimchen said, regardless of whether the shorter tail was wagging.
    "Without a tail, whether it was wagging or not, it was closer to the situation where the [long] tail was upright and still," he said.
    So, Reimchen surmises, if a puppy's tail is cut off when it's two or three days old, as is often done by breeders of such dogs as Doberman pinschers and Rottweilers for purely cosmetic reasons, it's possible that that puppy's experiences with other dogs will be affected for the rest of its life. And that could lead to the dog becoming more remote and aggressive.
    "Our research does show a possible connection between losing that signal and losing the ability to communicate with a potential increase in aggression," he said.
    A dog that lacks the ability to express its intentions with its tail may have to resort to other methods, Leaver says, such as growling, lunging or even biting. Or a dog that is always treated as if it were something to beware of, Reimchen says, may become a dog to beware of.
    "It's not rocket science," he explained. "Suppose you have a group of 10 puppies, and two of them have their tails chopped off. If we look at those two puppies minute by minute, day by day, and how not being able to signal with their tails is going to affect them, my thinking is that this could lead to a personality that is more cautious and eventually more aggressive."
    For opponents of tail docking, the UVic research is one more reason for Canada to follow the lead of Britain, several European nations and Australia and ban or at least limit the practice here.
    Said Peter Fricker of the Vancouver Humane Society: "Tail docking is just cosmetic surgery and it's totally unnecessary. It can be a painful procedure and it removes one of the dog's key ways of communicating."


    Any thoughts?
    • Gold Top Dog

    I would not automatically leap to aggression.  I think the short tail dog would experience anxiety and frustration in the social setting but the resulting behavior would be the way the dog copes with anxiety or learns to cope, and sometimes that does not include aggression.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Having a dog with NO tail, I will have to ponder this theory before I reply - but I wonder with this particular experiment, if dogs would ever mistake a robot dog for the real thing? I'll get back to this later.  

    • Gold Top Dog

     Agreed. How many dogs would actually think that RoboDog was a dog? I know Em would approach a RoboDog with caution, or not at all. Anything new is something to be cautious about, for her.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jennie_c_d

     Agreed. How many dogs would actually think that RoboDog was a dog?

    My dogs see Clicker trained dogs as dogs.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think it is a neat study.

    I know *I* approach unknown dogs with docked tails more cautiously, because it is harder to read their signals. I never guessed that dogs would be more cautious too!  It isn't that I'm afraid of "mean looking dogs" but rather than it can be harder to tell if the dog is friendly and welcoming.

    I wonder if dogs with docked tails, who interact primarily with other docked dogs, would show the same caution? My hypothesis is no, they would not, because "docked language" is their main language.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    denise m

    Having a dog with NO tail, I will have to ponder this theory before I reply - but I wonder with this particular experiment, if dogs would ever mistake a robot dog for the real thing? I'll get back to this later.  

     

    Well, I think that dogs might mistake a robodog for a real dog, but ONLY until they get within smelling distance.  And, the guys that did this experiment left out one important variable when it comes to dogs with no tails - the wiggle bum factor.  They certainly DO know how to tell other dogs that they are in friendly mode, and the other dogs seem to get it.  At least that has been my experience, and I'm the proud owner of an Aussie with no tail, and am also a former Dobe owner.  Neither dog was aggressive toward other dogs, although the Aussie certainly does expect her personal space to be respected, a trait that is common to a lot of the herders, tail or no tail. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    While it matters how *we* consider that the dogs view the Robot dog, the fact is there was a statistically significant difference between how the dogs viewed the Robodog WITH a tail and WITHOUT a tail. That simple fact, regardless of how they would react to it up close, indicates that the dogs viewed the Robodog with a tail different than without a tail. Regardless of what we think, the dogs behaved differently to the same dog, where the only change was tail style.

    And I think it's very possible that they would mistake it for a real dog. After all, the dogs weren't super close to it, and we all know (or some of us do) that a dog's eyesight for non-moving objects (tail moving, but not whole dog) at a distance is quite poor. I know my dogs have reacted to mannequins as though they were people until they were up close, and those wooden silhouettes of dogs as though they were dogs. Heck, when we bought a life-size statue of a Mini Schnauzer, and put it in the living room, all of the dogs stared at it from a distance or barked until they got up close. They did not realize at a distance that it was "just a statue". I portrays important information I think for how they perceive other animals and what cues they use to determine living from nonliving.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I can absolutely see how this could be an issue. The tail is one of the main methods of communication and body language of the dog. If it's missing, the whole message isn't going to come across. Suspicion might be created. Especially in a nervous or "cautious" dog.

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

    Well, I think that dogs might mistake a robodog for a real dog, but ONLY until they get within smelling distance. 

    And that smelling distance can be quite close.  I took one of my fosters, Molson on a home visit and in the middle of the family's living room was a full size statue of a zebra.  Molson approached cautiously and it wasn't until Molson smelled the statue's butt that he realized it was fake and then he became very disinterested.

    • Gold Top Dog

    lol @ DPUs clicker comment

     

    i dont think this robo dog thing holds much water....  dogs have other obvious signals they convey to other dogs when greeting for the first time..... not always involving tails.

    and as for the smell..... ever introduced a puppy to a mirror? i think they see an ANIMAL there and it freaks them out because for several reasons. #1 would be (my guess) that there isnt a smell.... so they cant "read" this strange critter.... so when they dare to get closer to sniff they discover that there Is no smell, except for the scent of dust, wood, or perhaps windex and old english furniture polish.... normal animals dont smell of such things.

    my husband introduced this shepherd to the mirror over our dresser and she had a hissy fit over it until he picked her up and let her sniff the mirror.... havent had a problem since.

     

    and yes some breeds that are genetically bred  without tails dont seem to be too bad about being friendly with other dogs. the australian shepherdXpit at the ranch had no tail and she lived happily with ten other dogs for quite a few years....

    • Gold Top Dog

    DPU

    spiritdogs

    Well, I think that dogs might mistake a robodog for a real dog, but ONLY until they get within smelling distance. 

    And that smelling distance can be quite close.  I took one of my fosters, Molson on a home visit and in the middle of the family's living room was a full size statue of a zebra.  Molson approached cautiously and it wasn't until Molson smelled the statue's butt that he realized it was fake and then he became very disinterested.

     

    That's true.  I've had that experience with some of the dogs that come to class when we use a mannequin dog to explain things like fitting an Easy Walk or a Gentle Leader.  They bark at the "dog" till they figure it out.  Oddly, not too many of the herders bark at the stuffie.  I don't necessarily attribute that to superior intelligence, though it could have some bearing, but to their innate concern with things that move versus things that don't.

    Anyway, nothing I say here should be at all construed to mean that I approve of docking.  In fact, I wish I had been able to preserve Sequoyah's tail;-))  Sioux's, after all, is quite luxuriant, and it has not hindered her from performing various activities the same as the other dogs here.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I have a dog that mistook a stuffed bear (about lab sized) for a real dog... last night at  store.  He wanted to say hi, and it just stared at him so he began barking at it.  The body language of the bear was not friendly nor inviting so he didn't want to smell it either.  It was really amusing to see him fooled by a stuffed animal, but it answered the robodog thing, in my opinion.

    As far as docked dogs, I do notice some dogs don't like him (he's a weim). For a long time I thought it was cause he's an intact male, but I began to think it could have more to do with the tail.  However, he's SUPER outgoing and friendly loves people and all dogs.  So I'd say it doesn't make them aggressive, but I could see how it COULD.  Socialization and A LOT OF IT is crucial, I also made sure that he played with a lot of dogs of different size, colors, hair lengths and types for the reason of exposing him to reading dogs body language through all their different disguises.

     

    • Bronze

    OK, I'll buy in that dogs with docked tails are impaired when it comes to communication.  And, I'll buy in that this study shows that dogs will approach a docked dog with more caution than one with a full tail.  I think that the results of the upright, still tail being the same as the docked wagging tail show that.

     BUT

    I'd say it is quite a leap to conclude that because other dogs approach a docked dog with caution, that this docked dog would therefore become aggressive.

    Other dogs sometimes have a hard time reading Winnie.  Depending on how long it's been since I've trimmed around her eyes, they are sometimes hard to see.  I keep a pretty full beard on her face, so there's little to no facial expressions to read (commissure, muscles around eyes, etc).  Her coat is full and fluffy, so there's no piloerection that can be read.  So, all she has is tail and body language, and limited eye contact.  She seems to know this, and throws all sorts of signals at approaching dogs with what she has.  She wags her tail, sometimes tail and butt, and will often lay down and crawl.  I've seen her try to get lower than my neighbor's yorkiepoo.  I know my personal results with Winnie are anecdotal, but I think being communication impaired has not made her aggressive, it just makes her work harder with what she's got.

     I'm not advocating tail docking, just disagreeing with the study's conclusion that a dog repeatedly approached with caution will become aggressive.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    another downside to tail-docking- dogs sans tails seem to be much more prone to injuring their knees according to noted sport-dog vet Chris Zink.