Oppositional Reflex

Funny you should mention that.

Not too long ago was a thread or section of thread wherein people were working on the stay command by exerting tension on a leash and depending on the dogs oppositional reflex to hold them in that stay.

I imagine that some dogs are suitable for molding, such as a slight pressure to the rump to encourage a sit.

I just had a funny thought. What if you had a dog that resisted the molding pressure to sit but hated going to the vet and everytime you said "vet", the dog would sit. Might it be easier to use the word "vet" as the cue for sit, initially? And later refer to the vet as doctor, a two syllable word?

I'm still mulling over the oppositional thing, thanks to the thread exchanges regarding pushing. I can understand some of the theory, at least in my own way, which often reduces to how I can describe it with OC terms.

To be honest, I have so seldom had to resort to putting tension on a leash to teach a stay that I can't remember the last time.  But, I know that sometimes this works.  To me, however, it's much harder to get people NOT to push on the dog, so I rarely mention it as a training strategy.  More like I want to tell them, um oh btw the dog wants to get UP if you push on his rump, not the other way around.

ron2

What if you had a dog that resisted the molding pressure to sit but hated going to the vet and everytime you said "vet", the dog would sit. Might it be easier to use the word "vet" as the cue for sit, initially? And later refer to the vet as doctor, a two syllable word?

I think the dog does not care if you call the vet "hamburger", if he hates the vet he hates the place, not the word and probably hates the vet because the human gets tense and nervous because the human starts thinking on what happened before and what could happen this time, most of the time when i dog hates the vet is the humans fault (the human was afraid of needles and got nervous from the first time, the human didnt socialized the dog and other dogs go there, etc etc) Oppositional reflex on the vet is just act like if it is any other place

My dog is a "sitter", he does it for everything, people push down the rump because they are thinking as humans and how a human would get what they want

probably the most common mis-use of oppositional reflex, and one that really slows down leash-walking manners, is people who use pulling on the leash to control their dog's movements

espencer

re if you call the vet "hamburger", if he hates the vet he hates the place, not the word and probably hates the vet because the human gets tense and nervous because the human starts thinking on what happened before and what could happen this time,

I agree. And I think you missed the sentence where I said it was a funny thought. Soon, "doctor" would have the same effect as "vet." It was not meant as a permanent solution. Just a funny thought, I thought.

mudpuppy

probably the most common mis-use of oppositional reflex, and one that really slows down leash-walking manners, is people who use pulling on the leash to control their dog's movements

So true.   

Having a dog who's breed is designed to run fast and pull hard in harness, Shadow's pulling was not so much oppositional reflex as it was a rewarding job. That is, from his viewpoint, he is supposed to feel tension. I saw this happen when I would switch to the 15 foot lead instead of the 3 foot lead I normally use. I would let it play out and he would feel the lack of tension and stop and wait for me to catch up and "reel in."

And yet, I can have him walk loose leash or in heel because, I think, that is also a job, too. One that I have made as rewarding as pulling. In either case, there is no opposition, only a job to do. The same with down or stay. They are rewarding jobs to do.

And even though it's not exactly stated that way in the other theory, I think the push exercise could have been meant to use the oppositional reflex to strengthen recall, though that is not how I have done it. I have made that a rewarding job, even in the face of distractions.

I still see reward as the ultimate goal for a dog. Is not the release of tension (mentioned so often in the other theory) some kind of reward for the dog? Why would the dog seek to release the tension unless it was rewarding in some way, or another? And if all actions are towards the gaining of resources, from hunting to resource guarding, to stranger dog knowledge to assess friend or foe status, then aren't we able to short cut that by providing the resources for reward in successfully handling those situations in ways that are beneficial to all of us?

In which case, where can oppositional reflex be successfully used?

ron2

In which case, where can oppositional reflex be successfully used?

I've just been reading/talking about using oppositional reflexes to strengthen sits, stands and other positions which may have to be held for extended periods of time in obedience- by putting slight (and gradually increasing) pressure on the back, legs or wherever, it's possible to work and strengthen the important muscles etc.

So there's one example . 

I've been amusing myself, lately, using dogs' oppositional reflexes to my full advantage. Anyone who's been in the pet industry for long knows that spring is Shavedown Season. I've had a lot of big dogs, lately, and a good few of them only come once a year (when it gets hot) to be shaved down. When I put them on the table to groom them, they want to sit.

Know what I do? Prop my elbow on their behinds. Makes them stand firm, almost every time, LOL. 

jennie_c_d

Know what I do? Prop my elbow on their behinds. Makes them stand firm, almost every

So, you can lean on arm arm while shearing with the other. Darn it, the image was funnier in my mind than in writing. But your saying that applying pressure on the rump makes them want to stay standing, which makes it easier for you to shear the back half?

jennie_c_d

I've been amusing myself, lately, using dogs' oppositional reflexes to my full advantage. Anyone who's been in the pet industry for long knows that spring is Shavedown Season. I've had a lot of big dogs, lately, and a good few of them only come once a year (when it gets hot) to be shaved down. When I put them on the table to groom them, they want to sit.

 

Know what I do? Prop my elbow on their behinds. Makes them stand firm, almost every time, LOL. 

Bet their owners can't figure out why they don't want to sit anymore at home.

Very creative use of oppositional reflex, though.  But, it's also a clear example of how, if someone will just bother to teach the dog to "stand" on the grooming or exam table, no groomer or vet would have to use it on their dog. 

Places I've used the oppositional reflex to my advantage:

- in Tracking. Because it goes against the normal "loose leash walking" skills, I encourage the oppositional reflex of pulling at will against the leash, but only when in tracking harness.
- To teach nice stacks on the table in conformation.

I don't wish to use oppositional reflex in teaching stays because it wouldn't work with how I teach. I teach (or try to...haha...having moved to the city we have some work to do with Shimmer I see!) that any pressure on the leash (aka, pulling ahead) is to be moved into, not away from, and it's the basis of how I can teach a lot of LLW skills. If the dog learns to move INTO the tension rather than away from it, the dog cannot pull. :-) So using the oppositional reflex for stay wouldn't work so well under that strategy.

Well, I doubt 15 minutes of light pressure on their behinds is going to stop them from sitting, LOL. It works on Emma, too, and she has a beautiful sit. Of course, she knows how to stand on a grooming table... She looks like the most pitiful, saddest thing ever when she's up there, but she stands.

I've never used tension for a stay. I don't know how to use it... I've been told it works really well. 

jennie_c_d

Well, I doubt 15 minutes of light pressure on their behinds is going to stop them from sitting, LOL. It works on Emma, too, and she has a beautiful sit. Of course, she knows how to stand on a grooming table... She looks like the most pitiful, saddest thing ever when she's up there, but she stands.

 

I've never used tension for a stay. I don't know how to use it... I've been told it works really well. 

Jennie, that was a joke.    Anyway, while I can see how taking advantage of the natural tendency of oppositional reflex would be used to get a dog to stand, or to stay, I have to say that I am with Kim in that I don't use it as a rule.  I find that other methods work faster.  I just think it's an interesting response that we share with dogs.