Training "manners"?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Training "manners"?

    I was hoping you guys could give me some tips on how to train my BF's family to train their boisterous and basically untrained boxer. I've only ever trained my own dogs, so a lot of times I guess I go kind of on instinct because when it comes to telling someone else what to do I've realized I'm pretty terrible! Embarrassed

    Problems:

    1) Jumping on people/climbing on them

    BF's family likes to push the dog off and yell at him. Dog thinks pushing is fun, and doesn't understand why he's being yelled at. He's too big and strong for the "ignore it and praise calm behavior" method to work. Should they progress to a squirt gun (which he finds mildly aversive), crate him, or put him in another room? Or something else?

    2) Counter & trash surfing like crazy

    Um... don't leave things on the counter? That's about all I got. Anything else they could try?

    3) "Go lie down"

    They basically want a "go away and stop being annoying" command, yet they for unknown reasons think the dog should understand them when they yell "Go lie DOWN!" without having previously trained this command. (?) They think because he occasionally goes away and lies down when they yell at him he understands what they want, and they don't understand why he doesn't listen to them all the time, so they just increase the volume of the request until he does, and which point they ignore him. lol.

    What I told them yesterday is that they need to be consistent with their followup (not just saying it over and over, actually making sure he does what they want when they ask him) and they need to reward him for doing things right. Part of the trouble here is he gets SUPER excited with any reward/praise/attention, so they're having a hard time teaching him to settle down because as soon as they reward him he gets super hyper again.

    I told them they should start saying, "Go lie down!" (quietly) as many times a day as they can, and then walking over to his pillow and dropping a treat there, then telling him "Good boy!" and giving him a release command. My idea was with enough repetitions of this he'd get the idea, but he's not the brightest dog I've ever met, so... was this good advice? Is there better advice I could give them?

     

    I'm of course making them sound much much worse than they are, that's just my frustration shining through. The dog is relatively happy, they spend big bucks and many months of uncontrollable diarrhea to work out his sensitive digestive issues, BF's mother works part-time tutoring from her home and the dog comes in the office with her while she's working, he gets walks (and is perfect on leash) and gets to run around in the yard while she's gardening... etc. etc. etc. They just don't really have a clue about how to teach "manners," and they sadly don't have the time right now to take the dog to a training class. Any advice/tips would be much appreciated!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    My first piece of advice is:  Get this dog some exercise!  Yes, I know that boxers can be incredibly active-but if he's got enough energy to be doing all this other stuff, he's not getting worn out enough on walks/runs/bike rides/hikes/games of fetch or tug.  

    Second piece of advice is basic obedience training.  It doesn't matter how old a dog is, that dog can and should learn basic life saving commands like sit, down, wait, leave it, etc.  It will also give your BF's family a chance to learn how to interact with him on his level.

     

    Let's face it, a dog with excess energy being told to "Go lie down" is probably not going to listen, especially if he's got ZERO training.   

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'd give them a gift certificate to take a basic obedience class.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Gosh, I know. He gets a 1-mile brisk walk a day - I don't think that's nearly enough exercise for this guy, since he tends to seriously be bouncing off the walls all the time - but unfortunately I think that's about all the exercise he's going to get right now.

    They've been working with him on sit, down, and stay, and he's pretty reliable with that now, so that's a big improvement for them! They've only had him for about 6 months (they adopted him from a rescue).

    They recently lost their last boxer at the age of 14 or so, so I think they're still somewhat stuck on the "Well, the old dog knew what this command meant, so you should, too!" kind of idea and forgetting that you actually have to *teach* a dog something before you can expect it to obey. Even their old dog had to be actually taught things at one point! Confused 

    • Gold Top Dog

    mudpuppy

    I'd give them a gift certificate to take a basic obedience class.

    I would love to, just right now they don't have the time to do it. BF's mother (dog's primary caretaker) teaches at a high school during the day and then tutors at night and on weekends - I've checked, and all the classes in the area would be significantly cutting into her working hours. I'm hoping this summer (when school's out) they'll be able to go. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    I agree with Xerxes. Exercise is the first and most important step I would take with this dog.

    Cita
    1) Jumping on people/climbing on them

    Leash the dog when people arrive (or whenever the jumping usually occurs). Ask people for "no touch, no talk, no eye contact" with the dog. Don't give the dog the opportunity to jump on people. When the dog settles and sits, then people can provide a calm praise, pat or treat. ONLY when he's sitting.

    I don't advocate crating or removing the dog as he never has the opportunity to learn manners if he is shut away. I see that as social punishment by keeping him away from people. 

    Cita
    2) Counter & trash surfing like crazy

    Yes, keep the counters cleared and trash unavailable. Dogs are scavengers. It's natural for them to find discarded food and eat it. Once a dog learns counter surfing, it's very hard to get him to use restraint. You can set up traps (Pile of cans a Scat Mat or Snappy Trainer) but the best advice is to keep it cleared so he doesn't get rewarded for doing it.

    Cita
    3) "Go lie down"

    Since he doesn't really know what "go lie down" means and the command is kind of ruined, I would teach him "place" or "mat". Have a special rug or bed that's his and can be moved around. Or have several that are similar, one in each room (that's what I have). Then using a clicker and treats or whatever method you're familiar with, teach the "place" command, meaning he must position himself on the mat to get the reward. Stand right by it at first and point to it. Then move a little further away, Don't forget to train in all locations (including outside for future needs). And train a release command. Then have the family use the "place" command when they want him to go away.

    Good luck!  

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'd do two things, off the bat.

    The first is *significantly* more exercise. I know you said that his 1 mile walk is all he can get right now, but it is amazing what can happen when you make something a priority. He NEEDS more exercise. Train all you want, he will not stop being an annoying pain in the tush until his exercise needs are being better met.

    The second thing I'd do is work on impulse control. Sort of like a "leave it" without any commands attached. This teaches dogs "When I want something, being calm works!" The way I do this is to get a yummy treat, and let the dog act like a knucklehead. It may be harder given his size - easier with puppies. But the dog can jump on me, etc., and I hold that treat and ignore the behavior. The instant the dog sits, looks away, or in any other way pauses - bam! Treat. This can be generalized to to doors, kennels, going for walks. If dog wants something, you hold still and ignore the dog until he behaves calmly. With a really hyper dog, set the standards low at first and increase them as he gets it.

    I never attach any commands to the above behavior, although it can be used as a starting point for formal leave its, wait, and all sorts of other things.

    Ha! I just thought about it and realized I'm ore or less teaching a polite "beg." Bwahaha. If you want something, calm down and look at me.  

    • Gold Top Dog

     Thanks so much, guys! I'll be sharing all of these responses with them to see if we can get a good plan of attack. As for the exercise... I'm working on them. They seem to think that the dog should run around on their property to exercise himself, like their last dog did, but he's very velcro-y and that is just not happening. The walk is an improvement (they didn't use to walk him more than once a week or so!!!) - maybe I'll see if I can teach him to chase a ball or something and they can throw it for him in the yard? (They have 4 acres)

    • Gold Top Dog

    Cita
    maybe I'll see if I can teach him to chase a ball or something and they can throw it for him in the yard?

     

    Much of my dogs' exercise is in the form of chasing frisbees or balls.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    Best thing - if the dog jumps up on you, ignore the bad behavior stand up (if they are sitting) and turn away from the dog crossing your arms over your chest and not looking at him.  As soon as he sits/calms down, turn and calmly say "good boy" and maybe give a treat. 

    Teach the dog to "sit" as a way of saying please.  If he wants something, he doesn't get it until he sits.  From meeting people to getting a treat.

    Combined with a good exercise program, I bet they won't need to repeat "go lay down" all the time.  He will just be calmer and better behaved.

     It's sad.  I've known people whose dogs thought their NAME was "go lay down".  Victoria Stillwell "It's me or the dog" is a good show to have them watch.

    • Gold Top Dog

    The way I always train them to not jump is to abruptly turn around, rock solid stiff & tall, and fold my arms and look straight away from the dog.  Turning your back on them is how THEY say 'no thanks don't do that' to each other.

     Rather than treats -- just use praise, or a gentle rub on the shoulders as the reward.  Calm voice.   "job well done" tone.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Do they have any friends with silly Labs???  A play date is just what this guy needs.  I don't suppose you could talk them into a couple of days at doggy day care.  (I find it convinces people really fast that the dog isn't getting enough activity, since the day care day is the only day the dog passes out when he comes home LOL) 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sorry I'm slow in coming back to this :) I'm investigating a doggy day care right now for both Rascal and their dog, Priam, and I'm hoping they'll be amenable - even one day every other week would probably make a big difference in this guy's happiness. Sadly, no big goofy dogs in the area want a playdate, and try as he might, Priam just can't get the cats to play with him, either. Now that the weather's getting better I'm going to see if BF's mom will help me teach Priam to "fetch" so he can do some heavy ball chasing. I also got him a Tug-a-Jug at the pet store a couple of days ago, so hopefully that will help keep him entertained, too. :)

    Apparently the dog *does* like to run around like an idiot when people are outside doing yardwork, so this summer when BF's mom goes into crazy gardening mode the dog should be much happier.

    Thanks for all your suggestions! Training with this fella (and, more importantly, the family, lol) is certainly a work in progress! It's amazing how much harder it is to train someone else to train their dog than it is to just train your own dog, sheesh. Hats off to you pros who do this stuff all the time!
     

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    • Gold Top Dog

    I feel for the big guy - if Bugsy got one mile a day and no play dates he'd make this guy look calm. There was a boxer on 'Its me or the dog' last night and it was very similar.  poor thing was literally bouncing off the walls.

    Jumping they need to work on first before explaining to others what to do - they have to fold their arms and turn away.  And keep turning away, over and over. He will eventually start to keep all four on the ground and then they need to praise that.  Bugsy as a pup was a jumper.  Once he gets it with them then they need to warn all visitors to fold their arms and turn.

    as 4ic said the 'on your mat' command is AWESOME.  It is an easy one to teach and a lifesaver.  When I go get a treat now Bugsy will run over to his bed and sit in a relaxed pose.  He knows 'on your bed' and 'on your mat' .  I've also taught him 'relax'.  He is a fidget pants at times so this is another good one.  I don't really recall how I did this one - he is so darn smart he picks a lot up, I'll try and remember

    and counter and trash surfing are bound to reduce once he has less reserve energy - but I have no experience with this one as B as never done it.  If DH leaves the kitchen trash open he looks down into it like "wow you guys are nuts throwing away all that good stuff" but he never goes in.  Then I hurriedly go close it muttering about DH in the process.

    • Bronze

    here's another easy way to add to the dog's activity (both mental and physical)

    http://www.dog.com/Search.aspx?query=buster+cube

    Stuffed Kongs will work too, but (assuming they're feeding kibble) the buster cube is really easy.