Protective of car?

ron2

I drive even more carefully with him in the car.

I thought I was the only one that did that.  =)   

A few say that this is a leadership issue. I can see where it might appear to be but I don't believe it is clearly the issue.

Others who have GSDs report their behavior being similar to Myrika's. Although a neighbor, who has an adult male GSD, says his dog is not protective of the car at all. Basically you could get into his car with his dog and drive away because he's going for a ride, and he is not protective of their house either.

Any thoughts?

Xerxes

It's really up to you as to what's acceptable and what's not acceptable to you...

Xerxes

...If you don't like it, then train your dog that it's not okay to protect the car.

Overall she listens very well, and will "drop-it, leave-it" (poop, sticks, ball, dirty snow) or "come" even if she doesn't want to. People comment all the time on how well-behaved my three dogs are. The car issue seems to be a whole other ball game though.

IF it is indeed a GSD trait how much control over this behavior do I have? To top it off, she is not a laid back personality, she is very drivey and busy. I've never met another dog with a greater sense of "self."

As an example with the Goldens, many are known to chew & destroy furniture because they have a mouth trait for retrieving, having things in their mouth. We've taught them from the beginning what things are appropriate to chew/put in their mouths and what are not. My thought was to encourage their natural trait within the boundaries of coexisting with us in our home without fighting their natural instinct and attempting to take it away.

Am I making any sense?

TAOofGoldyShep

Although a neighbor, who has an adult male GSD, says his dog is not protective of the car at all. Basically you could get into his car with his dog and drive away because he's going for a ride, and he is not protective of their house either.

Any thoughts?

Sorry, I don't have much to add except that my GSDs are NOT protective of the car when I'm there. I suspect if some fool tried to get in the car when I wasn't there, they would be more protective. They are, however, very protective of the house and the property. I  wonder if Myrika sees the car as an extension of the house, since she spends time in it...

I'm going to read over the rest of the thread... Okay, I didn't find anything else to add. But I think if she's protective of the car when you're there, whoever said it was a leadership thing might be on to something. A dog who feels secure that the people are handling things doesn't have a need to guard. A dog who feels that HE (or SHE) is the leader, will guard even when you're there. It's a possibility.

It's possible she sees the car as extension of the house but as I've already mentioned she doesn't have the same behavior in regard to the house or anything else.

I hope it doesn't appear that I'm refusing to look at it from a "lack of leadership" perspective because I have - at length, even before it was brought up in my query. It just does not make any sense to me that she would refuse leadership under only ONE circumstance. I am trying to see it from other vantage points. And, I don't believe everything in regard to canine behavior - seemingly positive or negative - boils down to leadership (granted a lot but not all). I do still want to hear from others who think it is a leadership issue and why.

At this point, after talking it out here & elsewhere, I don't even really know that she IS being protective of the car, or guarding. It appears that way from my limited human perspective but maybe she's just afraid. She very willingly gets into the car, and seems to enjoy riding, lays down, takes a nap, or sits up & looks around, no anxiety behaviors (wide eyes, panting, shaking, ears back) while riding along. And, like I said, she has no problem with drive-up windows, loves them in fact - has a friendly, outgoing nature towards window people.

My hubby was wondering if she might feel like she has nowhere to go when she's in the car, and people are milling around. If she were to step out of the car, the whole issue would diffuse.

FourIsCompany

A dog who feels that HE (or SHE) is the leader, will guard even when you're there. It's a possibility.

I completely understand your meaning.  I think it needs to be determined whether she's guarding or simply sounding the alarm.  There's a big difference.  There are ways to deal with both, but I think they are exclusive to a point.

Sounding the alarm, which loads of "watch dogs" will do, doesn't mean guarding-as I can attest to with personal experience.  

Either way, if it's a problem, or considered a problem, it's best to deal with it before "alerting" escalates into "guarding" or "guarding" escalates into true aggression. 

My little darling is the same way. I do not think it is a leadership issue for Kord, it's more of "this is mine and I'm letting you know it" deal. He is the same with the house and yard. I think some of this is just the breed. Some do, some don't. Like her he is drivey and intense.

Babe on the other hand would have invited anyone into the house, shared a meal and sent them on their way with the silver, if she was in the car she would have shown you were a spare key way and said let's ride!

I went from miss congeniality to the devil himself and it was an eye opener for me. Once you are "in" the car, house or yard, your ok and he will mind his manners, but do not even think of going in any of those without our say so, or your going to be sporting some interesting scrapes.

When I do take him somewhere he is behind a barrier, the windows are open just enough for air, no finger eating room what so ever. I limit the amount of "passerby" exposure he can get at the house as well.

I am a bit torn, I would like him approachable and friendly to strangers, but my neighborhood is a little difficult to manage this, I have a huge summer transient population and frankly there have been a few things in the neighborhood that make me want him to be just like he is.

Some of this will go away with age, Babe was a bit more gruff when she was younger, then she mellowed, I will tell you that hands down she took the cake in scary behavior. Where as Kord let's you know how you stand,  Babe was sneaky, she actually charged someone who came up the drive while my mother was out and she never made a sound. She just waited until he was within striking distance and charged...........whoosh...never saw a man run so fast in my life, and while he was checking his pants she calmly walked back to where she had been and sat waiting, he went to peddle his wares somewhere else (was one of those door to door steak sellers), she actually did this several times over the course of her years, never made a sound, but you knew what her intent was because you could read it coming off her in waves, get out and don't come back, ever!

FourIsCompany

A dog who feels that HE (or SHE) is the leader, will guard even when you're there.

TAOofGoldyShep

I hope it doesn't appear that I'm refusing to look at it from a "lack of leadership" perspective

It doesn't appear that way to me. And it wouldn't be my first guess. As I said (to everyone who is quoting that one sentence of mine), it's a possibility.  

TA, I don't know if you've elaborated. how exactly does she act and under what circumstances? Does she try to get out at people or does she back up to the far end of the car? Does she growl first or just come out barking? Does she show her teeth or just bark? If you tell her to be quiet, what happens?

Lot of dogs feel "trapped" in crates or cars and bark and carry on out of fear, very similar to leash reactivity.  Corrections may make such behavior worse.

Or it could just be guarding. Dogs have been bred for centuries to watchdog bark and guard people and property.

FourIsCompany

I'm going to read over the rest of the thread... Okay, I didn't find anything else to add. But I think if she's protective of the car when you're there, whoever said it was a leadership thing might be on to something. A dog who feels secure that the people are handling things doesn't have a need to guard. A dog who feels that HE (or SHE) is the leader, will guard even when you're there. It's a possibility.

 I disagree, the breed is supposed to be guardy and territorial. These traits tend to be amplified when they are in tight quarters but it is a normal, typical GSD thing. Out of three GSDs I have had two of them were/are seriously protective of the car. One was my Amline male and the other is my German showline girl. If I am in the car I might tell them to be quiet or knock it off but unless there are other issues not posted here IMO it is not a leadership issue if your guardy breed acts in a guardy manner, it is kind of expected.

seems bizarre to me that one would link guarding to a leadership problem.  If you're home, and your dog, lying at your feet, hears an intruder outside, if he barks at it does that mean you have a leadership issue? nonsense. It means you own a normal dog.

If you're walking along, and your normally friendly dog decides something is bad about THAT MAN and he carefully positions himself between you and THAT MAN and starts growling, does that mean you have a leadership issue? nonsense. It means you own a dog you can trust to protect you, a wonderful thing.

mudpuppy

seems bizarre to me that one would link guarding to a leadership problem. 

It's actually not bizarre at all and makes sense once it's understood. A dog should look to their person for information. If the person is not a strong leader, the dog might become distressed and feel the need to overprotect in the absence of a leader to turn to for that information.

German Shepherds make great guard dogs if they are trained to do so. Otherwise, they are great as a deterrent, but wouldn't necessarily make a reliable guard dog. There is sometimes a connection between displays of aggression, possession, guarding and other assertive behavior and lack of strong leadership. I'm not saying that this is Myrika's situation, but it's certainly a possibility is some cases of guarding.

Here are several links that explain the guarding/leadership connection.

Source 1
Source 2
Source 3 

Some dogs become quite possessive to one particular member in the house. These dogs may take an extra protective attitude towards that person and show aggressive behavior if other people try to get close or touch their favorite person. This behavior may also be due to the fact that many dogs like to have a single master and admire and love these people and would like for them to take charge always. For such dogs the person they are possessive about have to take the initiative to make the dog understand who the master is and who is in charge.

It is important that one assumes a leadership role. Most possessive behavior is caused by dogs thinking that they have a right to defend ‘their’ property from others.

mudpuppy

If you're home, and your dog, lying at your feet

But that's not what's happening in this case. We're talking about a dog in public in the car.

mudpuppy

If you're walking along, and your normally friendly dog decides something is bad about THAT MAN and he carefully positions himself between you and THAT MAN and starts growling, does that mean you have a leadership issue?

It could very well be. Absolutely. If a dog growls at someone for no reason, that could very well be a leadership issue. A properly trained guard dog should not aggress unless instructed to do so by the person (leader). In the above example, the dog is deciding. He is making the decisions and that's a recipe for disaster.

mudpuppy

If you're walking along, and your normally friendly dog decides something is bad about THAT MAN and he carefully positions himself between you and THAT MAN and starts growling, does that mean you have a leadership issue? nonsense. It means you own a dog you can trust to protect you, a wonderful thing.

 I agree it is normal for dogs, especially certain breeds to display guardy behavior. However, just because a dog is growly, hackled up and carrying on doesn't mean you can trust they will protect you. Some of that behavior is actually coming from uncertainity about the situation, which is why you often don't see trained protection dogs being reactive - they already know they can handle a threat if one comes up. Just a handful of untrained dogs will protect their owners in a serious manner if push came to shove. The rest will likely keep on barking or will run from a threatening person. People really don't like hearing that but most dogs aren't Lassie and you can't expect a dog to seriously protect you if they haven't been trained to do so.

mudpuppy

If you're walking along, and your normally friendly dog decides something is bad about THAT MAN and he carefully positions himself between you and THAT MAN and starts growling, does that mean you have a leadership issue? nonsense. It means you own a dog you can trust to protect you, a wonderful thing.

 I agree it is normal for dogs, especially certain breeds to display guardy behavior. However, just because a dog is growly, hackled up and carrying on doesn't mean you can trust they will protect you. Some of that behavior is actually coming from uncertainity about the situation, which is why you often don't see trained protection dogs being reactive - they already know they can handle a threat if one comes up. Just a handful of untrained dogs will protect their owners in a serious manner if push came to shove. The rest will likely keep on barking or will run from a threatening person. People really don't like hearing that but most dogs aren't Lassie and you can't expect a dog to seriously protect you if they haven't been trained to do so.

mudpuppy

If you're walking along, and your normally friendly dog decides something is bad about THAT MAN and he carefully positions himself between you and THAT MAN and starts growling, does that mean you have a leadership issue? nonsense. It means you own a dog you can trust to protect you, a wonderful thing.

 I agree it is normal for dogs, especially certain breeds to display guardy behavior. However, just because a dog is growly, hackled up and carrying on doesn't mean you can trust they will protect you. Some of that behavior is actually coming from uncertainity about the situation, which is why you often don't see trained protection dogs being reactive - they already know they can handle a threat if one comes up. Just a handful of untrained dogs will protect their owners in a serious manner if push came to shove. The rest will likely keep on barking or will run from a threatening person. People really don't like hearing that but most dogs aren't Lassie and you can't expect a dog to seriously protect you if they haven't been trained to do so.