How do I react to growling or biting?

Glenmar, you really do have a distorted view on accurate canine ethology. The things you recommend usually come straight from Annie's older posts in the old forum. I can tell with certainty that you are not a professional trainer, or if you are, you don't have many clients or get little to no results depending upon the diagnostic problem.

You stir up a lot of regressive discource here as I've seen over my time at I-Dog, and covertly, with a half-hearted smile put others and their suggestions down.

You may have a lot of posts and post often, but it is my personal opinion you know next to nothing when it comes to canine ethology.

Although I do commend your efforts towards pos. reinforcement techniques and methods. But that is not always the protocol for the given situation.

As the adage goes, Glenmar... (IMO) your bark is stronger than your bite.

One whom is too rigid in their training and behavior mod. techniques and methods is a very poor trainer, and will only give a quick fix. Nothing lasting. But that is my opinion, and I am no McConnell or Dunbar.


B.B

Well, that answers the question I posed to Jaime in the full moon thread.........
 
You are certainly entitled to your opinion.  And, if  you mean ANNE?, I've been spouting the same stuff for many years.  However, Anne and I do have similar philosophies and yes, I do hope to some day be as good with dogs as SHE is.
 
And guess what?  I've never claimed in any way shape or form to be a professional trainer.

I have not been a member here as long as others, and perhaps it is not my place to say so, but IMO i think your post was a little uncalled for, B.B.
 
From what I gather, Glenda has had a ALOT of experience with dogs and puppies, which I believe, is just as useful or maybe even sometimes more useful than a qualification/certificate/measly piece of paper- and with 6 (?) well-behaved German Shepherds, her methods must be effective. I believe that she, more than most, would know what works!

I learn a lot from your posts, Glenda, and I'm very sure I'm not the only one! I certainly appreciate all the good advice and wisdom you share so willingly (and respectfully).
 
Perhaps you, B.B., might need to do as your signature says a little more:
 

Treat people everyday as if it's the holidays. They deserve it. Let's treat each other as we did after 9/11. And try to stay away from that idiot box as much as possible.

That's the secret to serenity

 
That's all I have to say.

ORIGINAL: HeSaidSheSaid
Treat people everyday as if it's the holidays. They deserve it. Let's treat each other as we did after 9/11. And try to stay away from that idiot box as much as possible.

 
Interesting after reading your post this is your signature.
 
Your post was rude and uncalled for. No owner or trainer will always agree with another on method or theroy. Everyone here has a right to express what has worked for them as did every poster prior in this thread, many might not agree but this is how we learn from our peers.
 
Refrain from persoanl attack.

In no way am I attacking another member, that is not my intent.

But can anyone here actually say that Glenmar does not stir up controversy at every chance she can, as long as they don't agree with her "ways"?

Please, implore me.


B.B

Actually, it has been my experience here that Glenda usually refrains from personal attacks, but is stalwart in stating her views.  Nothing wrong with healthy debate IMHO.
So, with that said, I will tell you, and all the lurkers, how dangerous I believe the alpha roll is.  Firstly, it destroys your dog's confidence in you as a leader.  It simply scares the pants off a timid/fearful dog, and it makes a truly aggressive dog angrier.  The reason more of you don't get bitten when you try it (thus, believe that it works) is that you are almost always dealing with a frightened dog, not a really nasty one.  With a really nasty one, (remember, some of the 20% of dogs who exhibit aggressive behavior may be in that category) you may get bitten, or even attacked.  Good luck in the future.

In Glenda's defense, I have noticed in posts (even though i have only been here for a short while) that this girl really knows what she is talking about. Brian, I don't really see where your coming from when you say that her canine ethology is distorted! what did she ever do to you to make you so appauled? i don't understand.

In no way am I attacking another member, that is not my intent.

 
Using a members name and adressing the content of their post IS attacking.
 
 Should you have said something in the way of "I don't agree with some of the methods some people have on this thread" and addressed a particular method it would not have been considered attack. When directly naming a member and their methods there are issues

My sincere thanks to those of you who do not think I'm an ignorant, pot stirring bully! []

I just feel bad that this particular post, with a brand new member who is sincerely trying to help his dog, has stated already that he is not interested in doing anything that might aggravate his dog's fear (into aggression) has turned into a personal attack that feels a little aggressive itself.
 
Sam should be our focus--that or Ellie, my own terror/terrier, or her brother Murphy who, as many already know, has extreme Sam-like issues.
 
Thanks for thoughtful responses.

Well, this thread has gotten a little out of control...  But, if we are getting back to it - I am sure it has been said, but I don't see the post - even the Monks of New Skete, those who made the alpha roll popular in the first place, have come out in opposition to EVER alpha rolling a dog.  Their book was republished over the last couple of years, and the new addition specifically warns people not to do it - both because it is dangerous for the human and because it doesn't do anything to foster the bond between dog and handler.  The message it sends the dog is "I am about to kill you" - WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY THAT TO YOUR DOG???
 
Now - you can agree or disagree with the Monks, or, like me, you can take part of what they suggest and leave the rest - but, if even they no longer advocate the roll, I have got to think that there is a good reason...
 
I do honestly believe, and I am no expert, that there can be debate about how much touch/physical manipulation should be involved in training your dog.  And I think that it is probably the case that it depends on the dog and the relationship between the dog and handler.  In our case, Wesley has some issues with pushinness and aggression and we have tried a lot of things, including NILIF, which is totally physically non-confrontational, and also including having Wesley drag a leash so that we can enforce a command like "off" by taking his leash and leading him off the couch; or stepping on the leash when he jumps up, or using a prong collar so that he is respectful on lead.  This may be too much "touching" for some and not enough for others - it works for us, and if anyone has suggestions for different things to try, we are all ears...
 
I will also say that since I have been here, I have learned a great deal from Glenda.  Glenda is always quick to say that she is not a professional dog handler or trainer, rather that she simply has a ton of experience with a lot of different dogs...  She sticks to her guns, yes, and advocates for her beliefs that in almost all cases, everything that we want to accomplish with our dogs can be accomplished through positive means - I think that this kind of perspective is fantastic, because it has worked for Glenda, and therefore, I can use her experiences to try to find a way that works for me and my dog. 
 
 
 
 

Thanks, Schleide, for a thoughtful response. My fearful dog has hip dypslasia, pretty bad, and I don't like to touch him because I don't know how much pain I could cause. I prefer hands-off.
 
BTW, I thought the Alpha Roll was something wolves did when they knew "they were going to finished off?"
 
As in, more of a give up on the defeated's part?

even the Monks of New Skete, those who made the alpha roll popular in the first place, have come out in opposition to EVER alpha rolling a dog.  Their book was republished over the last couple of years, and the new addition specifically warns people not to do it - both because it is dangerous for the human and because it doesn't do anything to foster the bond between dog and handler.  The message it sends the dog is "I am about to kill you" - WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SAY THAT TO YOUR DOG???

Probably because the first inclination that primates have, when angry, is to scream, beat their chests, and fight.  Apparently, the dogs, with their exquisitely developed calming signals, have evolved past us in that regard. []

Boy ain't that the truth!
 
DS had a little rant the other day....26 years old and STILL anytime anything goes wrong in his little world it is somehow my fault.  He was yelling and beating his chest.....and I yawned.  Ticked him off big time! []  It's even worse when  I just walk away.[]

I am a firm believer in the alpha roll, it has worked wonders on every dog I have ever owned! I also agree that dogs live in a dominance or submissive world, let them think you#%92re a pansy and they are gonna take full advantage of that.

 
the "alpha roll" was totally discredited decades ago. The only time a dog or wolf would ever physically force another canine into a "roll" is if they planned to kill it. If you go around doing this to your dog, or your wolf-hybrid, you are either going to get badly injured when the terrified canine decides to defend himself, or you are going to terrorize your canine into completely shutting down. Do you seriously want your pet to think you are a homicidal lunatic?