spiritdogs
Who picks the reinforcer, the dog or the human?
The dog most certainly decides what makes a good or bad reinforcer, or what is the best vs. a mediocre reinforcer. The dog also decides what is most reinforcing at that time - the highest reinforcer in the bedroom is not necessarily the highest out in the field, is not necessarily the highest in the backyard. So context is key.
Obviously the human decides which reinforcer to use *G*
spiritdogs
Variable schedules of reinforcement
Well, in terms of what my dogs "Know", they can work on quite a large VSR. I have never asked for something until it became extinct, as I don't wish for them to become extinct, but they can work a long time, and do a large sequence of behaviours without the need for a reward each time.
However, as I've said before I rarely ask my dogs to do anything without having a reason to do so, so they have come to realize that doing so almost always gets them what they want. There is an understanding there. So even though I know they "will" do it long-term without reward, usually when I ask them to do something there is a reason I'm asking.
FourIsCompany
No one can say that they never use positive punishment. That's all I want to be clear about.
Sure they can. In the case of saying "ouch" ,the "Ouch" becomes a cue for the dog, as much as a "Leave it" does. In the beginning, the word "Ouch" is totally neutral. Usually, and the way I use it, is a distractor, it simply gets the pup's attention. At this time the puppy has no meaning for it. If the pup backs off right away, showing that it noticed the sound, you don't then punish the pup and walk away. If the pup keeps biting instead of backing off at the interruptor, you THEN get up and walk away.
Interruptors aren't punishers - they aren't meant to stop behaviour in the future, they are meant to simply interrupt a situation. An attention-getter. But once the interrupter is given meaning, it becomes a cue, and the dog has a choice as to whether or not it wishes to comply. Just as "Leave It" is giving the dog a choice (taught with a clicker), and "Sit" while at the back door gives the dog a choice (taught with a clicker), for me, the cue "Ouch" is also giving the dog a choice (not taught with a clicker, although you could teach bite prohibition with a clicker). In terms of bite inhibition, it also provides information, as for me, I don't want the pup to necessarily stop mouthing all together, just that that particular bite hurt, so I'm supplying that information.
The dog, when it hears "Ouch", has two options, and it knows the consequences of each one. If it continues to bite hard, P- will occur. If it stops biting and plays nicely, play will ensue. The pup gets to choose which choice to follow. So therefore the dog comes to understand that if it chooses to bite again, then P- will occur. And if it stops biting, play will resume. Just like "not sitting" at the door will result in my walking away, sitting at the door will result in going outdoors.
Contrast that to, with the same example, simply pressing down on a dog's tongue or holding the mouth shut. The dog has no choice in this matter, there is no auditory cue given, the punishment just happens. It isn't given information in which it can choose between scenarios, it is only presented with one option, the P+.
Does that make it more clear? And as I said in the punishment post, it's not because I have some aversion to the term punishment. I really don't. In this case it's just not used as a punisher. It's a cue, which presents information to the dog to make a decision, knowing the consequences of its actions.
Althought it would be great if we could keep the "punishments" to the punishment thread, and the "reinforcements" to the reinforcement thread :-) Makes it easier for all to follow and contribute to.