Easy Dogs

That was interesting. Here's the scores on mine.....

                Frosty                 Ripley

prey drive     20                       35

pack drive    65                       65

fight drive     20                       60

flight drive    20                       25

I consider Ripley easier to train, but Frosty easier to live with. The difference in fight drive between them is interesting too. Ripley is guardy, so that makes sense, but he still gets along with people and dogs fine.

I've taken the test twice.  I click OK... and nothing happens.... 

 I just did the test by hand.  here are my girls' scores - Maggie's don't seem quite right, probably because her level of training overrides some of her natural behavior leanings. :)

          Maggie         Ziva

Prey      55               70

Pack      40               65

Fight      40               35

Flight      35              15
 

 Liesje - try again in IE. Seems to do better than Firefox (which I'm guessing you're also using).

Rascal's -  45 prey, 50 pack, 65 fight, 50 flight.

So the question is... what does that mean?

Cassidys Mom

One of my dogs scored very high in both pack AND prey drive, not sure what that means.  

Mine too. I'm thinking we've won a prize of some sort

I didn't finish reading the whole thread, but the term "easy dogs" means to me that regardless of whether you're into agility, showing or any other type of training beyond the basics, you'll have a dog who fits in to the average family/lifestyle. I think there are some breeds that are more likely to fit that criteria than others and it pays to do your research.

GoldenAC

In Brian Kilcommon's book "Paws to Consider" he makes the comment that if the only dog you have had is an easy Golden Retriever you should still consider yourself a dog novice. ..... 

Hmmm. I think I resemble that remark a little bit ;-). I've owned eight dogs, all of whom I would consider "easy" in the sense of having been very easily trained to live with. And while I will be the absolute first person to say that I'm not the one to consult if one is having problems with aggression for example (either toward dogs or people), I would hardly consider myself a novice. I do think I understand his point, but I also think that sometimes the reason a dog is "easy" is because the owner is either experienced enough, or just has enough innate training ability, that their dogs are "easy" because they are never given the opportunity to develop problems in the first place. I think a couple of my dogs, who have been a breeze for me to live with and even to train to do some pretty cool stuff (in my not so humble opinion) would not necessarily have been "easy" for someone who wasn't comfortable or skilled in setting clear consistent boundaries.

GoldenAC

It makes me wonder if other people consider the ease of training an important consideration when chosing a dog?

Oh, absolutely. There are many breeds that I am happy to admire from afar, but I have no desire to live with, based on the "typical" temperament for the breed. I love training challenges, but I would prefer that those challenges be trying to figure out how best to teach directed jumping, or how to perfect outruns, or how to increase skill tracking on non-vegetated surfaces, not challenges in trying to figure out how to housebreak the dog, or how to keep him from ripping my arm out of its socket during a walk around the block, or how to prevent him from eviscerating the cat.

 prey-100

pack-75

fight-75

flight-40

I think that means "intense dog", LOL. I wouldn't want an easy dog. I gravitate to dogs with big needs, and dogs with sketchy temperaments. I'm hoping, next go round, to get a dog with big needs (as in *needs* to be trained, stimulated, socialized, challenged) but without the sketchiness. I really enjoy challenging dogs. When I say "jump", you should say, "Why?" not "How high?". LOL 

               Blaze     Co-Co       Mystic     Pooch       Dusty

Prey           15              50                 15              15              25

Pack           40              65                45              50             55

Fight          25              30                50              30             20       

Flight          0               15                  5               15             25

Some of those results I figured I'd get, but some were kinda surprising. 

I'm not sure that I agree so much with pack drive=easy dog, prey drive=difficult dog. I think a lot of mitigating factors come in with the fight/flight drives. Conrad is the high pack drive dog in the house, but he's also the difficult one--note the higher "flight" drive score, double Marlowe's. Marlowe has the higher prey drive, but not so high that he's totally impossible to deal with (though I think he got an artificially lower score because he's not interested in toys--he wants his prey to be alive), and his pack drive nearly matches the prey drive. But his low flight drive and relatively low fight drive also make him incredibly easy to live with (but not a shrinking violet, or a push-over). That's a solid temperament. Also, dogs with a pack drive too high I would think would have some separation issues, which is definitely not an easy thing to deal with at all.
 

Marlowe:
Prey=60
Pack=55
Fight=30
Flight=20

Conrad:
Prey=25
Pack=65
Fight=35
Flight=40

GoldenAC

It makes me wonder if other people consider the ease of training an important consideration when chosing a dog? 

First off, I never knew there was such thing as an "easy" dog. What makes a Golden Retriever easy? As a puppy they have very high eager energy [something that my lifestyle could never find to be 'easy']. I also personally don't think the Golden Retriever is the "smartest" [so why is it the easiest to train?]

Sheepdogs I find are hands down the most intelligent breed [Collie, Shetland Sheepdog, German Shepard, etc]. But this doesn't make them an easy dog... You need lots of space, time, and energy for these breeds.

I think the more intelligent way to separate breeds are "Dependent v.s. Independent" or purely on lifestyle needs.

Easy to me turned out to be a Pomeranian. I needed an apartment dog. Something that loves attention [even as I type this she's laying on me]. Travels everywhere with you easily. Will do anything to please their owner. That to me made life "easy." Takes her 5mins to learn a new trick; I can seriously take her anywhere [car, boat, plane, you name it she loves it], and she's my little baby [she'll never leave my side].

All of these qualities therefore made it easy to train her because she was happy, i was happy, it all worked out.

Breeds I would NEVER consider are more independent and hunting breeds. (i.e. Beagles, Pointers, Husky, etc) I've never seen a dog so NOT interested in their owner more than these breeds. I rescued a Beagle once and not only did it chase everything and anything but had to sniff anything and everything and really wouldn't care if I was there or not there. Not my type of dog; and this unattentive nature would drive me nuts! I swear most of them don't know their names, haha! I would call the thing a million times and its off on cloud nine sniffing a rock. THAT'S difficult. For people who own these dogs and actually managed to train these dogs I give you HUGE props! I have a lot of respect for you, I could never do that or want to deal with that.

Therefore easy to me are very dependent dogs (i.e. Poms) But for many this isn't the case! So to write a book on what's an easy dog is just non-sense. There is no such thing. Picking a dog should be solely on what you think you can handle & if their needs match your needs. In the end that's the only thing that makes it "easy." I have never ever heard that a GR is the "easiest" to train. No way.

Please keep in mind all of this is just my own opinion. If you can prove me wrong I'd love to see the facts & to shed some light on me. 

Our aggressive, difficult wolf-hybrid scored:

prey 55
pack 20
fight 25
flight 40

so there you have a higher prey than pack drive, and a fairly high flight drive (she was fear-aggressive), had no desire to please- low pack drive?, difficult to train (one of those Why what's in it for me? dogs)

Our neighbors difficult dog scored

prey 70
pack 60
fight 50
flight 50

his energy levels are through the roof, very drivey especially for toys, hard, intense dog, but super-eager to please and easy to train (one of those How high do you want me to jump and do you want me to clean the ceiling while I'm up there and can we do it again PLEASE? dogs)

laid-back elderly great dane, super easy, scored

prey 20
pack 55
fight 45
flight 0

loves everyone, some guarding behaviors, couch-potato. Most notable drive is pack, I guess the fight drive score is from the guarding behaviors.

mudpuppy

Our aggressive, difficult wolf-hybrid scored:

Oh, is that what you meant by 1/2 dog in the Chatter thread?  So is this right?  2 herders, 3 Great Danes, and a wolf mix?

For people who own these dogs and actually managed to train these dogs I give you HUGE props! I have a lot of respect for you, I could never do that or want to deal with that.

Thanks! Marlowe and I continue to prove people wrong about their views of the trainability of scenthounds. I can't wait to actually start competing in agility when we're ready because there's a lot of people who are just blown away by the very thought. I loved it so much (not to take pleasure in anyone else's failure, of course) that out of our whole CGC class, Marlowe was the only dog to actually pass the test. He was a bit older than a lot (but not all) of the other dogs, granted, so I didn't have to deal with puppy exhuberance. But we had a goldendoodle and a yellow lab in that class and neither passed. There were also some more challenging breeds as well, an akita, a french mastiff, and a swissy. It was seriously one of the proudest moments of my life (I don't have kids yet, so I will take those proud moments wherever I can get them!). 

I can't imagine having a really dependent, needy breed. That would make me insane. I love pointers but have pretty much ruled out ever owning one because I just can not deal with that level of neediness (I don't think pointers really belong in your list of independent breeds because they are quite stereotypically velcro dogs). Something like a GSD or a lap dog? God help me. I need my space and I like dogs who also need theirs. Though tell that to Marlowe, who spent most of last evening attempting to merge the molecules of his body with the molecules of mine.

When I first brought Marlowe home, he was like the beagle you described. Uninterested in people and didn't even really know how to interact with them (he did not wag his tail in response to any human activity for over 6 months), but that was a result of being raised without a lot of normal human interaction (he was a hunting dog) and getting in to training with him was 100% the best thing for him and me, to bond and get to know one another and for him to learn about what life with humans was like. If I'd have believed the hype about hounds, I would have just let him be aloof and confused and untrained, and it would have become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Instead, he's met and exceeded everyone one of my expectations for him as far as training goes, and he's the biggest snuggle-bum on the block, I'm sure.

houndlove:

I have so much respect for you and love your post! Congrats on CGC and all you have accomplished with Marlowe!! It truly is people like you that DESERVE to own this breed. I hate when people buy a dog like this off of looks and allow them to "run-the-show" due to not having the patiences or knowledge to train them.

Thanks for the update on Pointers! I had no idea this was more of a dependent breed v.s. hound & beagle.

My girlfriend is the same way and thinks I'm crazy for loving dependent "baby" "lap-dog" breeds. Not having children yet either I just love the practice! haha! But when she comes over she's like "ok is it going to follow us everywhere she's making me sick..." lol